n_02najib and rosmah Najib Razak was at the Wesak Day Celebration organized by major Buddhist organizations in Fuo Guang Shan, Dong Zhen Temple on May 9.

During the visit, Najib says that he admires the teachings of Buddhism, because it upholds “moral principles, resolves conflict in a peace lovig way, and that good deeds will bring good karma”. Buddhists, he added, have a big heart to accept the voices of dissidents” (Translated by from page A8 Oriental Daily News of 9 May 2009 by blogger Trinleychodron)

I would like to point out two articles which question this visit. Their questions are interesting.

It makes you wonder, what was Najib thinking when he was surrounded by all those Buddhist in the temple on Wesak day? And why was he invited when they know about Najib’s reputation?

In her blog, Trileychodron asks if Najib is telling himself that he needs to be morally upright?  Or, is he actually thinking:

“ The Chinese voters seems to be running away from BN, especially UMNO now. I need to call upon all these devotes, high monks with this nice statement on this auspicious day – to remind them about how beautiful Buddhism is.

“As Buddhists , we should always be forgiving, peace loving ,non confrontation and tolerance – even if injustice occur in this motherland?”

(Read more in her blog posting: Is Najib praising Buddhism or warning the Buddhists/Sangha?)

Another writer, Norbu Wang Zentea, who mailed his article to me, asked:

“But Does the Buddhists or the Buddhist Organizations who invited our Mr. VIP know this and practice this? I doubt so. Even if they know it, they don’t really want to express their understanding in such ways that will ‘hurt’ the feelings of others, including and especially our MR. VIP.

“But by doing so, do you think they have upgraded the status of Buddhists of being a fearless and dignified community? Or they have compromised to the view that “better stay and cooperate with the Devils because we can’t change them anyway?”

“But what I am trying to say is: why invite such person when you know already that he is NOT WELCOMED by anyone who has even the lowest common sense? And rationaLIES it with so many beautiful reasons like religious harmony, One Malaysia, tolerance and blablabla….??? Or should we say that there’s an hidden agenda for both parties e.g. they are just using each other to achieve what they want?

Read his article further here: Celebrating Wesak Day with Demon(s)?

Tell me what you think after this.

153 responses »

  1. wits0 says:

    Religious institutions always buy into political correctness, The Fuo Guang Shan, Dong Zhen Temple is no exception. That’s why ALL such institutions lose their shine over time throughout history.

    Any human institution, in order to enhance it’s own survival, takes on a life of its own by electing to be with the presumed mainstream of human affairs.

    The real salutary benefits of wisdom are derived by the individuals via own efforts. The institutions run with the crowd.

  2. pilocarpine says:

    Q: y naif so fast released so many ISA detainees once he became PM?

    A: to provide spaces for the others that he going to detain when he became PM.

  3. SameSame says:

    He thinks he can ‘buy’ back all with his show of solidarity with all race/religion. Sorry la bruder you can’t. I think all the effected Rakyat shall not kowtow to your likes again. Twice bitten, trice shy!

    Some more now he wants to talk about 1Perak when he and his goons (with the help of the ‘mastermind’) started all this mayhem! Aiyaa…sudahlah balik la. See you at the next elections bruder.

  4. Mystic_Guru says:

    I will hold my judgement to whom actually invite C4 there. As we all know, this is a public demonstration that ruling government care about all races. In that sense, this type of “public viewing” need some early planning from both the organiser & the VIP. U can’t just call C4 & ask him to come. Well, I believe this arrangement might have been initiated by the government. This is the type of opportunity for them to wash away the rakyat anger.
    So, I won’t blame the organiser for the invitation. They are a charity runned organization. Politic is the least they would need to involve in. When C4 say I want to officiate your Wesak Day celebration (or even your mum’s Mother’s Day party) would u dare to reject….You don’t need a C4 under your bed! ha ha:)

  5. steven says:

    Fuo Guang Shan, shame on you. Is it very important to invite this kind of VVIP people to attend to this very holy celebration ? It is an insult to Buddhist teaching & destroy the buddhist spirit in return.

  6. whispering9 says:

    steven….isn’t Buddhism about grace beyond politics. How can it be an insult to the teaching and spirit in return. Don’t drag Buddhism into politics and expect a monk to turn down anyone from visiting the Temple.

  7. machitam says:

    Dear Susan and all,
    What i am thinking is Najib visit to the temple is just a visit by a PM on an auspicious day such as Wesak day. Same goes to Christmas, Deepavali etc. Nothing canister about that.
    I don’t think the temple is looking and focusing on Najib “link” with Altantuya.
    All those Buddhist followers will celebrate their auspicious day irregardless of a visit by demons such as Mafia King, prostitute, striptease dancers, Zionist or others.
    Anyway, that visit will not take away an ounce of the faith of the Buddhist heart.
    Everyone has the rights to practice the religion of his belief. I don’t thing we should indulge into questioning Najib belief or faith of his religion or practice when he made the statement on Buddhism.
    Same also on Najib faith as a Muslim.
    But i can question his sincerity over injustice or things that he had done, shall do or will do if it is against Islam or Humanity.

    As a Muslim, i hold on one of the teachings, i.e “everyone is equal in the eyes of God(Allah)(i.e whether he is a malay, chinese, indian, aryan, arab etc) except for his faith toward Him…”

  8. monsterball says:

    I notice wherever he goes…it is followed by donations.
    Nothing UMNO does have no selfish ulterior motives.
    Knowing the vast majority is getting ready to vote UMNO out…Najib is playing the game of being the ‘nice guy’…copying Obama??
    He even told his ministers to be mindful and humble toward PR politicians.
    Have we not heard and seen all before?
    Nice guy…not working..out come the ISA again. Just watch the contradictions.
    Talk so much…yet dare not declare State election in Perak to show his respect to PR and people…killing two birds with one stone….why dare not?
    He can stuff his nice guy image into his arse.

  9. kassimselamat2 says:

    Nik Aziz visited the Thai Temple,Khalid Samad goes to talk in a Church and Teresa Kok goes to the mosque.

    Politicians do attend religious ceremonies when invited and do not have to do with beliefs.

    Surely you are not asking Nik Aziz whether he believes that the statue of Buddha is his god or ask Khalid whether he thinks jesus is son of god or Kok whether she is converting to islam.

    Najib and Altantuya? I think you are overselling this issue.Please can you dig up something new,fresh and true!

  10. AToong says:

    Its quite clear that Najib & Dottie are trying hard to capitalise on Buddhism, in the hope of winning back the support of Malaysian Buddhists. It was an out and out PR exercise by the BN leaders.

    As Buddhists, we are not so naive as to believe the devil’s sweet words even if he paraphase Buddha’s sayings…

    As for Fo Guan Shan.. I’m not sure if they have been arm twisted or are willing party to the PR exercise.. but one thing for sure..its must have been initiated by Najib’s cohorts Ong TK and Koh TK.. Its interesting to note that THE STAR front paged the same pic which had Ong’s face in the pic but Koh’s face was completely left out ! It just shows that MCA won’t give any quarters to GERAKAN even on such an important Buddhist day when everyone is supposed to show love and compassion for others. So don’t be taken in by the smiling faces of the BN leaders !

    In any case I have my reservation on Fo Guan Shan … the rather low profile Buddhist group with the largest following in Malaysia is Tzu Ji ..

    What Najib and UMNO/BN have been doing is totally contrary to Buddha’s teachings ! While Buddhism is fully of wisdom and compassion, Najib/UMNO on the other hand represent the opposite of Buddhism .. selfish, oppressive, ruthless and cruel to the people. An example would be the abusive use of ISA, which is completely contrary to Buddhist teaching !

    So, Susan it might be more appropriate to title your blog “Najib, Dottie, BN and Fo Guan Shan..” !

  11. jamesloh18 says:

    i saw the new papers with that backdoor koh? gosh he looked good..smiling ! must be feeling good….! with boss….! good show time…! any ideas what he was thinking ?

  12. 2nd class says:

    machitam – May 11, 2009 at 10:32 am

    I agree with the above comment. Susan don’t let your hatred against the PM / BN cloud your judgement. In this holy day please put our hatred away even for just 1 day and embrace our enemy with love.

  13. PeoplePower says:

    The Minister for KPI -Koh So Khun is the one who arrange Najib & Dottie to visit Fuo Guang Shan, Dong Zhen Temple.

    Pls ask him to explain WHY invite such persons!

  14. ciltra says:

    Like he said the other day”Malaysians are not stupid”.Our PM knows that the rakyat knows all that is happening in here.His play with words.his walkabouts,his presence in significant places all means nothing to people in the know.Like our religions have taught us,we stay calm.poised,and when the time comes for action, the very inteligents that we have will pave OUR success.

  15. wits0 says:

    “It was an out and out PR exercise by the BN leaders.” – AToong

    That’s what prompted Susan’s blogging. Being at opposite moral poles the whole show becomes laughable. While it is unknown who actually initiated the idea and organised it, that is of much lesser importance.

  16. Allen Tan says:

    Susan,

    It is interesting that Najib in his blog teaching people abt Integrity. He emphasize “to tell the truth”. But in the Altantuya case, the truth was buried by him!

    Maybe it was be a hot topic for your blog by questioning his hypocrisy, challenging him to tell the truth.

    Pls visit:
    http://www.1malaysia.com.my/index.php?option=com_jb2&PostID=64&view=post&Itemid=60

  17. wits0 says:

    Well, Koh Tsu Koon used to go around the Penang kongsi giving out 10K ang pows before elections during his tenure as CM.

  18. PM najib is correct when he says Buddism has tolerance…!!!
    That’s what the Monks are doing….!!!

    It’s okay…….
    We cannot get rid of people like that…..!

    Let them be…!
    “What goes around, comes around…!”

    How long can they still smile & carry on with their “guilty” lives…, I don’t know lah……..!!!
    I cannot…!
    My consience will be bothering me….!!

    That’s NOT the way of life…!

  19. Menyalak-er says:

    Nah, don’t put any substance into this foto-ops.
    Demons do what demons do. Freewill mah…
    It’s ‘neutral’ as far as i’m concerned. Just becoz, we despise someone or the instituition(s) he/she represents, we shouldn’t go overboard and bash the ‘invitor’ nor ‘invited’, especially for a religious one.
    Mugabe was kicked out from the Methodist Church but he still managed to get his uh.. “Communion” somewhere else – a warlock
    Even if he visits the ‘moon’ or Venus, he is free to do so.
    Remember: “…even the demons, recognize God and shudder!”
    Most spiritualized souls will know the difference.
    My question is where did the hee-HEE go and celebrate her ‘mother’s’ and Wesak day?
    Must have been a wonderful time for it, hmm…? haHa.

  20. eeyaw says:

    Susan,
    After what the two had done they think by visiting the temple will cleanse their sins. In GOD’s words there is no redemtion if you are involved in murder of a harmless woman nevermind been blown to smittering! HYPOCRITES!

  21. kittykat46 says:

    The formal religious institutions are mainly apolitical, but the reality is they simply blend in with the government-of-the-day, whatever it is.

    Naif Tong Rosak and Dottie are on a charm offensive with the nons, as the support for BN is at rock bottom with this portion of the electorate. This was just another photo-op and sound bite for the fake 1Malaysia marketing spiel.

    The real 1Malaysia ? We all saw it in the way Sivakumar was forcibly dragged out of the Perak assembly hall. No amount of sickly sweet propaganda is going to erase that.

    Remember May 7th !

  22. Menyalak-er says:

    Now, kk46, May 7th was a true video/foto ops for PR. Hahaha…
    “Hell hath no fury like a Speaker scorned!”, but then “Hell ain’t no competition for Heehee spawned!” And Karma, it will be.
    Poor DAP assemblyman Teng – now he knows what its feels like to have ‘cabai’ sprayed into his peepers! Heard he’s made a polis report – fat good that will do…

  23. wits0 says:

    I don’t think the lack of numbers in the Ipoh public rally is a good reflection of what the Perakians felt about May 7th like what RPK’s blog and comments suggest. Perhaps many people already realized that bn/umno and hee haw would follow their planned script anyway as they did.

  24. caravanserai says:

    Olive branch?
    It is too late to cry
    what had been done
    The people seen it all

    The spinning doctors
    You can’t find the cure
    The chaos in Perak
    The robbers got away

    Abetment by the agencies
    Covering the whole process
    Olive branch to cool it?
    It is out of the way

    The play of dark and light
    Every child knows its effect
    The fall and the laughter
    Finding treasures falling down
    The echoes hear it out

  25. Patriot says:

    I’ll tell you why this temple and others will invite evil people to go and desecrate it.

    The temple committees, infiltrated and controlled by mainly the evil mca have taken control over the administration of the temples, not the monks who are mainly from Sri Lanka. The Mahavihara in Brickfields is an example- it was the scene of bitter struggle for control by mca and gerakan. gerakan left after they obtain a piece of land in Subang Jaya to build a temple. Today it is thoroughly controlled by the buddhist missionary society actually a branch of the mca. Even the official Buddhist magazine of the society have become a mouthpiece for mca. Buddhism has become a vehicle to spread mca and bn evil !

    The bottom line is money!!! Even temple monks are susceptible to the temptation of money.

    Many many devotees have left the temple because it is a branch of mca.

    Is it surprising that evil people like najis and dottie and ong tee kia are keenly courted and invited to temple functions??????

  26. JUSTICE says:

    Sorry dear Susan,

    Look at what the Buddhist in Sri Lanka are doing. Are they following the peaceful, forgiving, peace loving ,non confrontation and tolerant teachings of the great Buddha? No wonder they invited Najib and bini.

    They all have double standards and kowtow to those in power…..
    Sad but the truth of the fact is that you do not need to be religious to adhere to such principles in life. A man of principle may even be an atheist, but he should be honest and compassionate.

    I am a believer but I also believe that there is no point in following all the great saints and masters of the world if we are not able to understand the basics of Love and Compassion towards all living creatures.

  27. lonesome goat says:

    Ol Naify saw violence in Buddhist Siam firsthand, so OTK and KTK advised him to be nice to Malaysian Buddhist in case they side with Pakatan in a rampage in future.
    On the other hand it could be Ol Wiggyvellu advising Ol Naify to side with the buddhist to hantam the tamils like in Srilanka in case Hindraf want to ask for more.
    Whatever, but look at doe-eyed Dottie and the little titillating cellulites on her lovely face….! Dottei sure is pretty! Susan, you sure you don’t have her full size picture?

  28. Menyalak-er says:

    Oops, errata: posting @ 12:31, should read as T.H.Yew not Teng.
    Meanwhile, please can we leave this Sri Lanka thingy aside for a while? Dangerous ground, another day p’haps?
    I prefer friend lonesome goat’s ‘cellulite’ fetish!

  29. My2cen says:

    Protocol to invite him la…. I wonder if he came to pray to Altan — the woman who shall not be named (coz she’s a Buddhost, u know?) — to seek forgiveness…

  30. Do not lose the focus of the bloggers’ campaign right now by talking about the VVIP visit on Wesak (after all Samy Vellu was once invited by my church to officate something, nobody really cared anyway.)

    We must all demand an apology from those resposnsible for instructing the “men” to remove Sivakumar from the state assembly hall on 7 May.

    Keep harping on the invisible damage to the nation’s psyche and we will soon see an official apology from the government by Merdeka or sooner.

  31. Morning Dew says:

    After many years away and had recently embraced budhhism I was interested in knowing how the buddhist temple my father had painstakingly helped to build was faring. I visited the temple which had now became the largest in the state. There on the free dharma books rack were numerous books,articles, magazines etc belonging to mca. After some inquiry I found that the temple had literally been shanghai’ed by mca buffons. This was one reason why the temple had grown so rapidly in physical and mundane assets. These buffoons had literally poisoned the dharma space with all their politicking and in-fighting. This is why many sangha moved out of the temple.

    It is indeed a very common occurence in malaysia that temples and dharma centres are infested by political animals. So it doesn’t come as a surprise that najib invited himself to the wesak day celebration.

    Having said this is there anything wrong or inappropriate in extending the “invitation” to najib ? To answer the question it is perhaps best to look to the sutra for guidance. Buddha invited his cousin brother to join the sangha even though he knew of the evil lurking in his heart. Not long after joining the sangha devatatha, buddha’s cousin, started showing jealousy towards buddha and started maligning buddha. The division over vegetarianism was very deep to the point that the sangha was split and devatatha took a group of sangha to a teacher who was always jealous of buddha. Soon after the split devatatha just could not let go of his hatred for buddha and decided to murder buddha. Devatatha almost succeeded.

    Buddha later used the incident with devatatha in one of his teachings and said that even he knew of devatatha’s heart condition he had invited him in so that he could gain good merit.

    Recently someone told me that he knew of a number of former gangsters who had now become staunch followers of buddhism to basically atone for their years of crime and harming others. They felt that their karma would be lessened. Buddha taught that each karmic seed will find it’s own fruition. We cannot compensate one bad deed with a good deed.

    We could see from here that an attempted murderer of a buddha could also gain good merit and najib’s visit should be seen in that context. Jesus himself visited tax collectors and prostitutes. Judgement belongs to God.

  32. machitam says:

    Najib really needed the Buddhist followers to win in Perak because his appointed MB had been declared illigitimate.
    The rightful PR MB Nizar is seeking audiences with the Sultan of Perak to dissolve the DUN assembly.
    Now it up to the people of Perak whether to give a fresh mandate to PR Nizar to rule Perak.

    KUALA LUMPUR: The High Court here ruled rule on Monday that Datuk Seri Mohammad Nizar Jamaluddin is the rightful Perak Mentri Besar, and not Barisan Nasional’s Datuk Seri Dr Zambry Abdul Kadir.

    In an immediate response, Zambry said he would apply for a stay pending appeal. This was rejected by the court.

    Nizar immediately left the courtroom immediately after a press conference to travel to Ipoh where he will seek an audience with the Sultan of Perak, Sultan Azlan Shah, to get his consent to dissolve the Assembly and call for fresh state elections.

    In his ruling Monday, Justice Abdul Aziz Abd Rahim said that a new mentri besar could not be appointed as the office had not been vacated.

    He said a mentri besar can only be dismissed by a vote of no confidence, and upheld the Stephen Kalong Ningkan ruling.

    He noted that the Perak State Legislative did not hold a vote of no confidence.

    In 1966, Sarawak Chief Minister Datuk Stephen Kalong Ningkan was ousted when the state governor showed him a letter of no confidence issued by 21 out of 42 legislators and asked Ningkan to resign.

    Ningkan refused, saying the letters were not tantamount to a vote of no confidence in the state legislative assembly. He was sacked by the governor but eventually reinstated by the Borneo High Court, which saw the necessity of a formal vote of no confidence.

    According to the Nutgraph, the judge ruled ruled that the governor can only dismiss the chief minister when both these conditions are satisfied:

    (a) The chief minister has lost the confidence of the House, and

    (b) The chief minister has refused to resign and failed to advise a dissolution.

    Nizar had filed for a judicial review on Feb 13, seeking a declaration that he is the rightful mentri besar of Perak and an injunction to bar Dr Zambry from discharging his duties as the mentri besar.

    On March 6, Justice Lau Bee Lan had ruled that there were constitutional issues involving the interpretation of Article 16 (6) of the Perak Constitution and later referred four consitutional questions to the Federal Court for determination.

    However, on March 23, the Federal Court ruled that the case of who the rightful mentri besar is should be heard by the High Court.

    Nizar’s lead counsel Sulaiman Abdullah, in wrapping up his submissions last week, said the Constitution was the “genius of the Malaysian people”, adding that the court had a duty to uphold it. Over the last few days, he had submitted that the Sultan, while granted powers in the Perak Constitution to appoint a mentri besar, could not dismiss him.

    The only way Nizar could be dismissed, he said, was through a vote of no-confidence in the House.

    He also said that a mentri besar could request for the State Assembly to be dissolved in the middle of a term without losing the confidence of the majority of the House.

    Dr Zambry’s lawyer Datuk Cecil Abraham, however, argued that Nizar went by Article 16(6) of the Perak Constitution when he sought an audience with the Sultan – this article specifically provides for the mentri besar to request for a dissolution when he has lost the confidence of the majority in the House.

    Under the article, Nizar is required to tender the resignation of his executive councillors when his request was rejected, he said.

    Previous stories:
    High Court to decide who’s the real Perak MB today
    High Court to rule on who is the rightful Perak MB on Monday
    Counsel: Sultan can appoint MB but can’t remove him
    A-G succeeds in bid to intervene in Nizar’s case

  33. whispering9 says:

    …I did a tap dance on hearing the news. Very beh tahan any government installed by traitorous means (which include DSAI’s attempt on 916). Yeah…go back to the rakyat for a fresh mandate. Don’t keep showing us that donkey heehaw face and the 28-31 equation.

  34. bee yong says:

    In response to Norbo Wang Zentea’s comment, we must consider respecting the ‘Chair’ although we might not respect the ‘Person’ on the ‘Chair’. In this case, the Buddhist organisation is inviting the “Chair’, who is the PM of Malaysia although they might not like inviting Najib, the Person. Hope this could be clearly understood. Malaysia is a respected country with a respected position of a PM.

    On another score, his adviser might have advised him incompletely. He mentioned “that good deeds will bring good karma” but he did not mentioned that “evil deed will bring evil karma”. The Law of Karma is irrevocable and does not recognise a begger from an emperor; it applies to all.

  35. ktteokt says:

    Najis has insulted ISLAM more than enough, stop insulting BUDDHISM!

  36. lonesome goat says:

    Ah Menyalaker, you understand me don’t you. Fetishes aside, will it suffice to say I hallucinate when I see the big dame. But, of course, without the platinum headed coot standing beside.

  37. nomic says:

    Indian sami with godmother

  38. Gadfly says:

    A major role of the Buddhist sangha throughout the centuries in Asia has been that of providing moral legitimacy to wise and virtuous rulers and to withdraw their support for the cruel ones.

    When Najis’s name has not been cleared of acts that run counter to the fundamental Buddhist ethical values , the intention and the spiritual value of Fuo Guang Shan as a Buddhist institution is being called into question.

    By providing such moral legitimacy, it undermines its own moral authority. Members of the Buddhist sangha are expected to serve as role models for the lay persons as personalification of non-violence and non-greed. It has betrayed the trust of the Buddhist community.

    State power can corrupt religion just as much religion can corrupt state power. I find the following guidelines from “Interbeing” for Engaged Buddhism by Thich Nhat Hanh helpful to clarify the situation:

    ” …Do not use the Buddhist community for personal gain or profit, or transform your community into a political party. A religioous community, however, should take a clear stand against oppression and injustice and should strive to change the situation without engaging in partisan conflicts…

    Do not kill. Do not let others kill. Find whatever means possible to protect life and prevent war…”

    In short, Buddhists must have a clear stand on social injustice. They also need to be aware of how Budhhist doctrines can be used to rationalise or justify acts of dehumanisation.

    Spritual realisation by itself is not suffcient to distinguish the legal and moral rights and wrongs at the social political dimension. Fuo Guang Shan has yet to be morally sensitive to the feelings and thinking of the ordinary Malaysian folks as their founder is of Taiwan origin.

  39. wits0 says:

    “In short, Buddhists must have a clear stand on social injustice. They also need to be aware of how Budhhist doctrines can be used to rationalise or justify acts of dehumanisation.”

    Exactly what I meant of the laity in becoming so passively and unthinkingly trusting of their institutions that went astray. It’s so easy to become (almost naturally)herdish and so much more difficult to be discerning. But discernment has always been the backbone of (higher) Buddhist teachings.

  40. PIG[police inspector general] says:

    pooodah baruah najis……..kononnya hormati agama rakyat bukan melayu……..1little,2little, 3little hindraf, 4little,5little,6little hindraf, 7little,8little,9little hindraf……10litlle hindraf will always be free…

  41. Menyalak-er says:

    “But discernment has always been the backbone of (higher) Buddhist teachings.” wits0.
    Yes, it would apply to almost all religions too, buddy. Passitivity is sometimes misconstrued as inherent to a particular religion.
    It’s stark ‘reality’ that frightens many, for they live in dreams and thus they turn to the very ‘anthropological’ instituitions that cobble and shackle them.
    Buddhist teachings are outward expressions of inward realities.
    Christian teachings are the same, except with help from what Plato calls ‘First Cause’ i.e God, who is revealing Himself within us.
    If the ‘Way’ is adhered to in either faiths, one does reach a ‘modicum’ of discernment, simplistic as it sounds.
    The highest is usually the lowest.., and whatever we say has already been said. Only when we down to the lowest common denominator we diverge, is it not?
    Not that i expect the 2 main characters whom Susan is speaking about, can understand nor vouch-safe.

  42. wits0 says:

    The essential difference is that Buddhism has the Kalama Sutra – the freedom to doubt – something which others don’t (dare)allow.
    http://www.parami.org/buddhistanswers/kalama_sutta.htm

    It depends on self conviction rather than institutionalised conformism via ‘faith’.

    Buddha was focused on the moral life to overcome suffering in this earthly life and enunciated the 8 Fold Path after the 4 Noble Truths. He certainly knew much more about the Inward Reality as he himself has declared when He once picked up a handful of fallen leaves in a forest and said that this was what he has taught compared with all the fallen leaves in that forest.

    It was the Seth Entity of Jane Roberts who really transmitted plenty about the Greater Reality – little of which conflicted with the Buddha’s exposē. Seth also accorded the highest rating for the Buddha’s explanation of Reality amongst all traditional religions. As did Sri Ramakrishnan, the Master of Swami Vivekananda and some others.

    btw, I agree with Morning Dew’s insight regarding Karma – as something that has to be worked out by oneself. “Forgiveness” from others has little real consequences on one’s own bad actions and delayed reactions. That Law is rather Impartial.

  43. ZenTea says:

    Bee Yong says:” In response to Norbo Wang Zentea’s comment, we must consider respecting the ‘Chair’ although we might not respect the ‘Person’ on the ‘Chair’. In this case, the Buddhist organisation is inviting the “Chair’, who is the PM of Malaysia although they might not like inviting Najib, the Person. Hope this could be clearly understood. Malaysia is a respected country with a respected position of a PM.”

    In response to this, why not just unviting the Chair alone to come instead of the unwanted VIP? it’s a symbol anyway, or maybe just wrote “Najib” on the chair will do?

    The real petson himself is the living example and undeniable reality of how the concept of a ‘PM’ is embodied, we all know that “Malaysia is a respected country with a respected position of a PM.” – but to invite THIS PM who carries THIS quality at THIS time, in THIS occasion – I think was not skilful to embody the wisdom and inteligent aspects of Buddhism or the Dharma.

    The problem is not inviting or not inviting the PM, the poblem is inviting THIS PM with (maybe) improper motives and insensitivity toward the public opinion (we are talking about SENTIENT BEINGS’ POLITICAL SUFFERING here!) with the intention to achieve certain good results – this is certainly against the conduct of Right View and Karma.

    Also, saying NO to the VIP on the chair doesn’t mean we are disrespectins the Chair – or rather I would say – it’s because we underastand and respect the meaning and dignity of the Chair that we SHOULD discontinue to let this kind of person to sit on the Chair, and following the concept of a fearless Bodhisattva – we should dare to stop him from continuing his misbehaviours to misuse the power represented by the Chair.

    We Buddhist must act – and it’s time now we should walk the talk.
    We preach about courage and fearlessness, we must now act uppon it without delay.

    We must not behave like a coward when comes to Political Reality.
    It is also a way of practice if you know how to do so – remember the example of Gandhi and the Dalai Lama, and that Dharma should be integrated into our daily life.

    At least, we should not let him sit on this chair on this sacred and
    meaningful Enlightenment Day – which has NOTHING to do at all with his bad governence.

    Why connect with a person who is totally disconnected with the Truth in this Enlightenment Day? do you REALLY think we have the intention and ability to TRANSFORM him by inviting him to come and say a few meaningless words? I don’t think they have this in mind when they invited (or received and welcomed his intention to come) him there. There are many ways to do that if we want to. The question is: dare we?

    Result= causes+conditions, it is not good enough to say good or bad deeds will bring this or that, BUt to prepare a condusive conditions to allow certain results to happen – this need wisdom, real compasion and some skilful means PLUS ‘ a little bit’ fearless dignity and Trust – on the dignity of your innate Buddha nature and the infallible law of karma.

    I would like to point out that Karma and “Cause and Effect” may means two diffrenet things. Let me quote what I have wrotten before here:
    “Karma (業) actually means action or forces of action, not cause and effects (因果). For example, a cup is under the control of “causes” and “effects” because it is made by various elements, and by influencing these elements, what we call “cup” will change its entity at the end BUT the cup DOESN’T has KARMA – because it doesn’t have a MIND – 0nly BEINGS WITH CONSCIOSness has KARMA. this is a very obvious and popular misconception; even scholars and teachers made the same mistake. :-)”

    Cheers to all,
    ZENtea

  44. Morning Dew says:

    ZenTea wrote :

    “Karma actually means action or forces of action, not cause and effects. For example, a cup is under the control of “causes” and “effects” because it is made by various elements, and by influencing these elements, what we call “cup” will change its entity at the end BUT the cup DOESN’T has KARMA – because it doesn’t have a MIND – 0nly BEINGS WITH CONSCIOSness has KARMA. this is a very obvious and popular misconception; even scholars and teachers made the same mistake.🙂 ”
    ————————————–
    Many scholars and teachers refer to “karma” as a short form of “law of karma”. Using short form is very common in communication. If one is not to discerning of the context where the short form is used one can make the mistake as you had made.

    In the law of karma “causes” refered to the karmic seeds and these can only be created when actions are done and completed – hence the word “karma” which means “action” was used to describe the law.

    Buddha likened phenomenon as “3 reed standing” where a fortuitous confluence of causes and conditions establish the phenomenon. Causes here refered to a number of things depending on the phenomenon.

    A physical object is not “controlled” by causes and effects. Its expression was determined by complex causes and conditions.

  45. Morning Dew says:

    ZenTea wrote and wrote :

    “Why connect with a person who is totally disconnected with the Truth in this Enlightenment Day? do you REALLY think we have the intention and ability to TRANSFORM him by inviting him to come and say a few meaningless words? I don’t think they have this in mind when they invited (or received and welcomed his intention to come) him there. There are many ways to do that if we want to. The question is: dare we?

    ———————-
    When Buddha denied woman from joining the sangha Yusodhara, Buddha’s wife, asked of Buddha a very pertinent question and that question is just as pertinent here. Yusodhara asked Buddha whether a woman could gain liberation ? And Buddha reply was in the affirmative.

    Does najib also have buddha nature ?

    Buddhism had often been symbolised as a lotus. We know very well that a lotus with its beautiful blossom is untainted by the mud and decay that such plant thrive in. Many do not realise that the lotus is most healthy and beautiful in the midst of mud and decay. Take this same lotus plant to a thoroughly sanitised, clean, uncontaminated environmrnt and it will die within days.

    Jesus said it best when he said that dharma is for those who have sinned.

  46. Morning Dew says:

    ZenTea wrote and wrote and wrote :

    “We Buddhist must act – and it’s time now we should walk the talk.
    We preach about courage and fearlessness, we must now act uppon it without delay.

    We must not behave like a coward when comes to Political Reality.
    It is also a way of practice if you know how to do so – remember the example of Gandhi and the Dalai Lama, and that Dharma should be integrated into our daily life.”
    ——–

    In the history of buddhism, even when Buddha was still alive, the followers had always been above politics. This is not to say that they were the royalty nor does it meant that they see no evil, hear no evil and do no evil. The true sangha, and not those who chose to use the sangha for selfish politucal end, understood the deep interconnection of all sentient beings and the environment and the law of affinity and karma. As such they had always chosen to give advice – based on the dharma rather than to actively engaged in politicking and influence peddling.

    When the sakya clan, where Buddha came from, were attacked Buddha could have stopped it but he only did it 3 times to make a point for us to learn from. During Buddha’s time when an invading army met a holy man on the way, out of respect they will stop and withdraw. They knew that if they continued they will lose. That was the belief then. In fact Buddha taught something similar.

    King virudhara decided one day to invade kapilavastu where buddha came from. On the way the king saw buddha meditating beneath the dead tree. The king asked buddha why he was meditating under a dead tree and not a bodhi tree. “You are right, ” replied the Buddha, “but what is the use of a Bodhi tree without love and peace?”. Eventhough the king hated buddha, out of respect he withdrew the army. The king repeated this two other times and each time saw buddha meditating under a dead three. However on the 4th attempt Buddha was not there. Mogalana, the disciple with tremendous miracle power, decided to physically get involved and saved many of the sakya clan. Inspite of all his miracle prowess he could not save a single one. All died bloody deaths and the sakya clan was massacred.

    Buddha used the occasion to explain his action and why mogalana had failed. The law of karma is inviolate.

    Buddhists had always been pacifist and when the muslims invaded india none of the buddhist in the north took up arms to resist the invading force and for this reason many indians in the south, even to this day, blamed the buddhist for the success of the invasion of india. Buddhism was literally wiped out from india and almost all the sutras were destroyed.

  47. wits0 says:

    “International Standard Version (©2008)
    When Jesus heard that, he said to them, “Healthy people don’t need a physician, but sick ones do. I did not come to call righteous people, but sinners.””
    Mark 2:17
    😉

    What is mind?
    No matter. What is matter?
    Never mind.
    – Thomas Hewitt Key

    An old quote often used by Buddhists to describe the nature of Reality…that it is Mind created. As Seth has said, “The Universe is a Mental Construct.”

    Sentient beings (from desire) pooled their collective resources together and create the common phenomenal Reality and experience it themselves according to their varying measure of consciousness.

    That’s why it’s impossible for scientists to discover any sub atomic particle that’s immutable even via the Cern Particle Accelerator to this day. Instead they discovered those which leap in and out of our Reality via scientific inference.

    Only Man has the potential to understand the Esoteric nature of things.

  48. wits0 says:

    Morning Dew:
    “Buddhists had always been pacifist and when the muslims invaded india none of the buddhist in the north took up arms to resist the invading force and for this reason many indians in the south, even to this day, blamed the buddhist for the success of the invasion of india. Buddhism was literally wiped out from india and almost all the sutras were destroyed.”

    Have they learnt anything from that? Especially from an institutional level? Some (falling for the lies of the invaders) even opened the gates of their besieged cities resulting in the slaughtered of all within!

  49. wits0 says:

    Mr Zen Tea : “..remember Gandhi and the Dalai Lama”.

    I’m sure we do but if are to be exacting, neither are without flaws although in conventional terms they serve as useful icons for peace rather than the untenable opposite.

    Many are oblivious of the fact that Gandhi was promoted and made use of by the Indian Congress Party as its icon and sold abroad as a greater entity than he actually was. Also that not all Indians revere him because they knew better.

    Among other things, he said that the Nazi Holocaust was okay!

    The other reasons quoted:

    The Gandhi Nobody Knows
    Richard Grenier
    http://history.eserver.org/ghandi-nobody-knows.txt

    The Dalai Lama has been too political correct but not factually so.

  50. ktteokt says:

    If Najis is so pious as to attend a Buddhist function, he should perhaps ask the Abbot of Fo Guang Shan what the following phrase mean:

    苦海无边,回头是岸,放下屠刀,立地成佛!

  51. Morning Dew says:

    wits0 wrote :

    “Have they learnt anything from that? Especially from an institutional level? Some (falling for the lies of the invaders) even opened the gates of their besieged cities resulting in the slaughtered of all within!”
    —-
    This rendering of historical event is really laughable. I think the lies lie within your own consciousness.

    There is a statue called the all seeing eyes in nepal. Some see it as peaceful and yet others see it as wrathful. Whatever you see is what is in you heart.

  52. wa wa says:

    Put aside all philosphocal debate and historical arguements about buddhists, buddhism or dalai lama or gandhi etc or old story of buddists role in the past….

    Put aside whether you are buddhist or what the dotrince says

    Just ask ourselves, as a citizen and son/dautgther of this motherland, do we agree with all the suppressive ways of this current government led by najib -the way polices being used to arrest people, MPs and also the way how the power transition is being make in Perak state.
    Do you think what teh current BN government stands of justice and fairness.

    Too much mental execise can make us sometime live in your own world- such as we say., all phenomenon are our own mind creation.
    i wnat to add- this include also when our mind cannot see the truth in our external mind, we claim it is not exist is another ignorance.
    The worst for those deep in their hearts they know is wrong yet pretend and argue with all types of dotrince to confuse people.

    whether you are buddhists or not, whether you refer to any dotrince. whether ghandi is so lauzy, whethe dalai lama is too political.

    the important is, what is your stands in response to all these injustuice happeining now? no dalai lama no ganhi no buddha will answer us !

    wa wa

  53. wits0 says:

    Morning Dew, my consciousness has not hallucinate what I’ve come across, only that the exact link is presently lost but relatedly the below link is available:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raja_Dahir

    “Raja Dahir (Sindhi: راجا ڏاھر), born 679 AD, died 712 AD,[1] was the last Hindu ruler situated in Sindh and parts of Punjab in modern day Pakistan. During the beginning of the Muslim conquest in the Indian subcontinent his kingdom was conquered by Muhammad bin Qasim for the Umayyad Caliphate.”

    “..By enlisting the support of various local tribes, such as the Jats, Meds, Bhuttos and Buddhist rulers of Nerun, Bajhra, Kaka Kolak and Siwistan, as infantry to his predominantly cavalry army Muhammad bin Qasim defeated Dahir and captured his eastern territories for the Umayyad Caliphate.”

    “…From Debal he then moved on to Nerun for supplies, where the city’s Buddhist governor had acknowledged itself as a tributary of the Caliphate after the first campaign and opened the gates to the forces of the second. “

  54. wits0 says:

    Wa wa, as Seth puts it, “You create your own reality, individually and en masse.”

    The rest are guideposts, some better, some worse and we have to discern the forces of Light from that of Darkness.

  55. Gadfly says:

    It is sad to find Buddhism being manipulated by self-serving politicians and monks becoming more politician than politicians. In advancing its own interests, certain ‘Buddhists’ have become complicit in social injustice and oppression.This is crass spiritual materialism of the worst form as it is done in the name of religion.

    Instead of just blaming on external forces, Buddhists themselves need to examine critically the inner causes of degeneration. Buddhism has more or less become a broken record, keep on repeating the same old doctrine again and again. It is symptomatic of the death of inner critical spirit , thereby giving rise to authoritarian structures and rigid ideas.

    There are a few comments I would like to make:

    1) Certain Buddhist organisations allow themselves to be subservient to political control.
    2) The concept of good and bad karma has become a moral justification for social inequality. Suffering then has nothing to do with structural violence and coercion. It is all because of what the person had done in past lives. The thought of Karma is both the sigh and the opium of the oppressed.
    3)The concept of non-self or anatta and voidness/emptiness does not allow or encourage the conceptualisation of human rights and justice. The latter requires a strengtening of the sense of self, the rights of the self, whereas non-self deconstructs any references to the self.
    4) Overemphasis on meditation as the way or the only way to enlightenment. Meditation helps to rewire the brain circuitry of fight-flight response. But, it does nothing to the oppressive social conditions. The lopsided contemplative or cognitive focus has resulted in the deliberate neglect of discursive thoughts and debates. Buddhists tend to have fuzzy and hazy ideas on many social issues.
    5) The concept of gratefulness to family and friends has been distorted to gratefulness to all types of political elite or politic or state power, no matter how authoritarian it is.
    6) The doctrine of Middle Way has preempted a priori any attempts to make a clear-cut stand on injustice.
    7)The focus on or attachment to inner peace has weakened to will to reform society or to advocate for the powerless.
    8) The concept of nonduality destroys the efforts to call a spade a spade, to speak truth to the power.
    9) The attachment to harmony weakens critical enquiry and debates.
    10) The attachment to the idea of compassion results in false forgiveness of criminal and unethical acts and in turning a blind eye to evil.

    Buddhism has its own shadow or limitations that it has difficulties to illuminate.

    ( Note: I have reframed certain perspectives stated by Hakugen who felt deep remorse over his wartime complicity as a Buddhist)

  56. bee yong says:

    To ZenTea:
    Let’s clarify what ‘Chair’ and ‘Person’ means in BeeYong (May 11 at 4.10p.m)
    Let me put it into another dimension. In any business organization there will be a CEO, division head, section head, departmental head, etc. In most case not all heads personally like the CEO for one reason or another. However, no matter how much we dislike or even hate the CEO, he is still the CEO for the company (you can’t change that; only the shareholders/directors could). Now, if the CEO wanted to visit or take part in the activities of your section or department, you as a head (who personally hate this person) ‘must still allow him to vist of partake any activity in your section/dept, failing which you could be sacked. You may not respect this person personally but you must respect ‘the position’ of a CEO. I trust this clarify the ‘Chair’ and ‘Person’.

    In relation to Karma and Cause/Effect, I wish to participate a little.
    All phenomena of the universe occur in accordance with the Law of Nature or Natural Laws. Whether Lord Buddha exist or not,there are these Natural Laws. There are 5 groups: namely 1. Natural Law of Physical Energy 2. Law of Physical Organic Order 3. Natural Law of Karma 4. Natural Law of Dharma and 5. Natural Law of the Mind. All these laws are inter-related.
    Natural Law of Karma governs the occurrence of good and bad effect in consequence of corresponding good and bad intentional action (cause) done by a living being. Karma means intentional action which produces karmic energy. This unspent energy accrued during the countless previous existences in Samsara is stored in out 8th consciousness. At the appropriate ripe time during the activities of our 7th consciousness, the corresponding unspent karmic energy is brought down from our 8th consciousness and transform into an ‘effect’ (the cause could be just a moment ago, a day ago, a year ago, a life time ago or countless previous existence ago). Hope this explain how karma, cause and effect are inter-related. Thank you for reading.

  57. wits0 says:

    Gadfly : “Buddhism has its own shadow or limitations that it has difficulties to illuminate.”

    Yes, whether this came partly from the hands of Brahmins is secondary to the matter blogged by Susan here. It seems really to need a Martin Luther sorta. The Dalai Lama is not such a one.

  58. sandy says:

    s he really praising the teaching of Buddha and dharma?
    Or he want to warn the sangha and devotees to keep silence? No differentiation mind of black and white/ no differentiation mind of justice and injustice/right & wrong?

    http://trinleychodron.wordpress.com/2009/05/10/is-prime-minister-najib-praising-the-buddhism-or-warn-the-buddhistssangha/

  59. wits0 says:

    He knows that the Buddhist community is larger than the Christian one in Peninsular M’sia and if he can cow cum bribe them into undifferentiating passiveness then he would end up with less opposition to the bn/umno rule.

  60. wits0 says:

    Churches call for fresh elections in Perak
    http://www.mysinchew.com/node/24340?tid=14

    Where’s the same from Buddhist quarters?

  61. wa wa says:

    http://trinleychodron.wordpress.com/2009/05/11/silence-of-spiritual-movement-alike-the-partner-of-crime-for-injustices/

    Silence of Spiritual movement : alike the partner of crime for injustices?
    By trinleychodron

    and pls take a look of the:

    http://www.inebnetwork.org/web/

    International Network of Engaged Buddhists (INEB)

    there are socially engaged buddhist and sangha all over the world, EXCEPT MALAYSIA…hahahhaha

    see this what people says abt buddhism🙂

  62. ktteokt says:

    The Chinese are running away from BN and UMNO for one very simple reason – they do not want to admit INFERIORITY under the KETUANAN MELAYU concept! If no one admits inferiority, then how can the Malays claim KETUANAN MELAYU! What’s more, Najis wanted ONE MALAYSIA. If KETUANAN MELAYU carries on, how the hell can he expect to achieve ONE MALAYSIA? There will definitely be two MALAYSIAS, a Bumi Malaysia and a NON-Bumi Malaysia! Is he trying to slap his own face??????

  63. rafraf says:

    Najis is a diintegrating rocky bum. More pressure he will be in TR or…..HEART ATTACK

  64. Gadfly says:

    wits0 asks sharply “Where’s the same from Buddhist quarters?”

    The traditional Buddhist training focuses on the development of compassion and wisdom in an individual, but not on moral courage. Unfortunately, such training has often created many an excuse in not confronting the reality.

    Aung San Suu Kyi was once interviewed by a foreign journalist. He asked,”What is the difference between politics and meditation?”

    She answered, “During meditation, if a mosquito bites you, you say ‘Biting, biting, biting.’ But, when the army is attacking the people, you don’t say ‘Attacking, attacking, attacking’. You must get out of your meditation cushion and do something. That’s the difference.”

  65. rafraf says:

    One of these badly needed

    WARNING: This footage is graphic and disturbing. It shows a dramatic scene of a monk surrounded by flames and reveals the enormous political impact this had both inside and outside of Vietnam.

  66. Morning Dew says:

    wits0 wrote :

    “Many are oblivious of the fact that Gandhi was promoted and made use of by the Indian Congress Party as its icon and sold abroad as a greater entity than he actually was. Also that not all Indians revere him because they knew better.”
    ———

    The follow on of your statement seem to suggest that you have some specialised knowledge beyond what was conventionally accepted….or that you think you know better just from the hearsay of others. I think buddha called this foolishness. I am not so nice and just call it – “clever at been stupid”.

    Gandhi and HH were far more than the iconic symbolism that your mind seem to conjure up and want us to believe.

    Gandhi did have his fault and he struggled with it daily. He confronted his hypocrisy with honesty and had never pretended to be more than what he was. I think in the realm of hypocrisy people would much prefer to live in the cesspool of their delusions than to admit it and try to resolve the matter guided by their spiritual leaning. Those who are “clever at been foolish” tended to call such honesty as a sign of “weakness” .

    HH had some controversy with the New karmapa and of course with the communist. Looking at many(can’t claim to have seen all) of the accusations and what I have learned about HH(including speaking at length with his cook in dharamsala) I could say with deep conviction that inspite all the dung hurled at him he still come out smelling with devine fragrance.

  67. wits0 says:

    There are More things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy

    One’s take a knock when one’s conventionally accepted icon gets a different review. Somethings are beyond the relating to cleverness or stupidity. They simply happen to be. A right thinking person would not preached non resistance to the Nazis or said that the Holocaust was okay.

    One question to ask, Morning Dew, also is why did his non-violence thing only worked in India and not while in South Africa where he was also an activist?

  68. keppel says:

    Gandhi

    What He’s Remembered For
    Being a spiritual leader in India who fought for Indian independence without ever resorting to violence. He’s primarily known in America as that Macintosh spokesperson who looks sort of like E.T.

    Why You Should Hate Him
    Here’s a quote from Gandhi: “I do not consider [name omitted] to be as bad as depicted. He is showing an ability that is amazing, and he seems to be gaining his victories without much bloodshed.”

    Can you guess who’s name was omitted? If you guessed Adolf Hitler, you’re right and also totally insane for guessing that. You may remember Hitler as the character mentioned in the intro to this piece as an irrefutable dick. Apparently, Gandhi disagreed. We should have known this about Gandhi as soon as he started shaving his head …

    http://www.cracked.com/article_14870_7-great-men-in-history-why-you-should-hate-them.html

  69. keppel says:

    Gandhi’s “policy” was predicated on rather shaky premises —

    * assuming all opponents have at least a Brit “moral code”
    * a naïve view of “human nature” in general and the deep-rootedness of violence in particular
    * not solving the game theory problem by messaging “these guys first”, etc.

    The problem however, is whether good intentions let him off the hook when the consequences of his prescription are practically the perfect opposite. The glaring holes and leaps-of-faith in his policy would have undoubtedly led to an even easier extermination job for Hitler and his anti-Semitic ilk. Although it was the Soviets who took the technique to evil-brilliant heights (and to a much smaller extent, modern Jihadi’s), one can envision a hypothetical Nazi agent provocateur hired to spread Gandhi’s diatribes to the Jews (or any other Untermensch) just to speed things along. (how’s that for Machiavellian? )

    These issues create a likely consequence (for the Jews) pretty diametrically opposite his intentions. The unfortunate result is to make people like Gandhi – to use Lenin’s memorable phrase – “useful idiots” for the opposition. The Nazi’s would never agree with Gandhi’s intentions nor vice-versa but the consequences would sadly be quite synergistic.

  70. Morning Dew says:

    wits0 wrote :

    “Morning Dew, my consciousness has not hallucinate what I’ve come across, only that the exact link is presently lost but relatedly the below link is available:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raja_Dahir
    —————————-

    I wasn’t suggesting that you had hallucinated. I was merely saying that your accounting of events were fabrication(it would be a lie if you knew what you were saying was not accurate) and your reply only proved my point…..or perhaps you would want to claim now that you were just “less than accurate”.

    In reading historical accounts it is also good to distinguish between lay followers and sangha. Many “buddhist advisor” to the governor does not suggest that it was the position of the buddhists of the day. The buddhist governor of the state that was a tributary of the caliphate was not fed lies but had merely expressed its loyalty. The hindus had also persecuted the buddhists for many years.

  71. keppel says:

    If you want to understand the evolution of elitist political correctness (reductio ad absurdum), study the modern history of India.

    Anand Patwardhan belongs to the Indian leftist elite who respond to a century of Islamic Terror on the subcontinent with handwringing and self-hatred, or like Arundhati Roy campaign for urban masses to go without good water and electricity supply (Narmada Dam) so that a few tribals can continue to live their stone-age lifestyle.

    The ‘Mahatma’ Gandhi himself popularised the ‘cycle of violence’ theory by which any attempt at self-defence or proportionate response is ‘merely exacerbating the problem’.

    Thanks for that, Mahatma and Co.!

    Muslim separatists began agitating in India for their ‘land of the pure’ (Paki-stan) and the return of the Caliphate about 90 years ago. Their method? Massacre large numbers of innocent Hindus, especially women and children, as cruelly as possible, then when the Hindus respond, claim that Muslims are the real victims. Thus they got what they wanted, and they’ve been on a roll ever since…

    Sound familiar?
    Coming soon to a theatre near you!

  72. Morning Dew says:

    Gadfly wrote :

    -Instead of just blaming on external forces, Buddhists themselves -need to examine critically the inner causes of degeneration. -Buddhism has more or less become a broken record, keep on -repeating the same old doctrine again and again. It is symptomatic -of the death of inner critical spirit , thereby giving rise to -authoritarian structures and rigid ideas.

    Buddhism as taught and envisaged by Buddha was never meant to be a social or political movement. Buddha’s emphasis on solitary cultivation had in fact set it apart from many religious teachings of his day. The whole goal of budhhism was spiritual liberation.

    However in later years there were many changes to his teachings and many buddhist thinkers felt the need for social engagement. And what resulted was like a monk wearing madonna’s dress with twin towers.

    Gadfly wrote :

    –There are a few comments I would like to make:

    –1) Certain Buddhist organisations allow themselves to be –subservient to political control.

    This is the same with all religious organisation.

    Gadfly wrote :

    –2) The concept of good and bad karma has become a moral –justification for social inequality. Suffering then has nothing to do –with structural violence and coercion. It is all because of what the –person had done in past lives. The thought of Karma is both the –sigh and the opium of the oppressed.

    Not so. Buddha in his teaching of karma said that a person with a bad karma could change his condition to manifest the good karma. A person borned with good karma could end up a miserable destitute. Buddha gave numerous examples to illustrate his point.

    In short Buddha encourages us, no matter what our current state is, to change for the better. ALL of us have both good and bad karmic seeds.

    ****** will continue later ******

  73. keppel says:

    ‘Abandon Gandhi’

    Pravin Togadia of the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (World Hindu Council) said in a public gathering: “Until the day we give up Gandhi’s ideology of non violence and the ideology of surrendering, terrorism cannot be defeated.”

    “My brothers, we will have to abandon Gandhi.”

  74. rafraf says:

    If earlier, would have saved millions

  75. Menyalak-er says:

    Whoa! Most informative critiques.
    All being said, a lot of Gandhi’s “satyagrapha” was influenced by Leo Tolstoy’s “The Kingdom of God is within you.”
    There is pacifism (both negative and positive aspects), as there is agression, but the truth of the matter is:
    “Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself.” (L.Tolstoy)
    It’s the externals that is our undoing, not the ‘inwards’ which most of don’t have anyway.

  76. migrantsall says:

    If mamaq zambry wants to be like his indian relative gandhi, he should start going around in loin cloth first

  77. kittykat46 says:

    Quote I read somewhere.

    If Nazi Germany had a Gandhi, he would have been sent to the gas chamber ages ago.

    Ahimsa isn’t the right answer everywhere or all the time.

  78. keppel says:

    Gandhism is not synonymous with effectiveness.

    Gandhi’s methods were successful in dissuading the British from holding on to India, not in dissuading the Muslim League from partitioning India.

    Judgment of Gandhism itself: either it represents a lofty ethical alternative to the more common methods of power politics, or it is erroneous and ridiculous.

  79. keppel says:

    When Gandhi was killed today 60 years ago, there was a newspaper in England which was quoted as saying, we put up with him for so many years and you Indians could not keep him for more than 5 months.

  80. keppel says:

    I can conceive the necessity of the immolation of hundreds, if not thousands, to appease the hunger of dictators… Sufferers need not see the result in their lifetime… The method of violence gives no greater guarantee than that of non-violence…” Millions sacrifice themselves in war without any guarantee that the world will be better as a result or even that the enemy will be defeated. Yet who does not fiercely resent the suggestion that anybody die in deliberate non-violent sacrifice?
    -Gandhi

    Pore pore chap…..missed the killing fields

  81. wits0 says:

    “Ahimsa isn’t the right answer everywhere or all the time.”

    It helped breed those generations of useful idiots and pacifist leftist afterwards who may even revise history to vilify the Cid and the likes:

  82. loiny says:

    Cyberspace is a world of Maya with Mara shooting arrows at the enlightened ones. One has to be a Shaolin master in order to fight these demons and to continue to evolve into wise individuals.

    Paid cyber-troopers in the Malaysian Mahabharata of this millennium is a feature of this perpetually fragmented world. The industrial model has collapsed. The Malaysian monarchical state is in trouble. The Perak plague is a beginning of the Balkanization of this Asian despotic state we are attempting to reconstruct.

    In cyberspace, bloggers are playing the art of making others aware of issues and in the process hopefully imparting wisdom. Bloggers are artists practising the art of harmonizing truth, realism, and activism.

    http://magickriver.blogspot.com/

  83. loiny says:

    In the political scene, Malaysia is being deconstructed by bloggers. It is a natural progression of the anarchic nature of the Internet. No politician is safe. You can neither run nor hide in cyberspace. It is a Matrix of the Maya world we inhabit; a world of the Maras that attacked Buddha and of the masses that stormed the Bastille.

    Malaysia will continue to be destabilized by bloggers – for the better – in her evolution towards the establishment of a just republic or a republic of virtue as the French ideologues of the 18th century would say.

  84. Morning Dew says:

    Gadfly wrote :

    –3)The concept of non-self or anatta and voidness/emptiness
    –does not allow or encourage the conceptualisation of
    –human rights and justice. The latter requires a
    –strengtening of the sense of self, the rights of the
    –self, whereas non-self deconstructs any references
    –to the self.

    Far from it. In fact buddhist conceptualisation or view of human rights and justice is far more comprehensive and inclusive than what is currently envisaged. Justice is not confined to a single lifetime nor to a singular event. Anatta is not merely a concept but a state of being to be realised. The realisation of anatta also enabled the realisation that rights and justice can never be asserted but is a result of the natural flow of events.

    All actions based on desire will only bring about the opposite effect sooner or later. Good can become bad just as bad could evolve into good. The seed of good is found in bad just as that which is good is found in bad.

    To illustrate this point let me cite a very common zen story that many buddhists used to justify unskillful means. A hunter came by and asked a buddhist where had the deer gone. The buddhist pointed in the opposite direction. On the surface it would seem that a good had been achieved and a lie was justified. Due to our delusion we could not really discern the wide ranging effects of our course of actions. The lie, while saving the deer could have directed the hunter into a pit set up by other hunter and thus killing him. The now famous movie line “what we do in life ripples through eternity” seem to hold equally true for what we do not do.

    Due to our delusions and our utter lack of wisdom buddha gave a very simple moral guidance and i.e “do no harm, do only good and cultivate the mind”. It is important for us to keep in mind that as long as we do not know what is harmful we should not even try to do good.

    Gadfly wrote :

    –4) Overemphasis on meditation as the way or the only
    –way to enlightenment. Meditation helps to rewire the
    — brain circuitry of fight-flight response. But, it does
    –nothing to the oppressive social conditions. The lopsided –contemplative or cognitive focus has resulted in the
    –deliberate neglect of discursive thoughts and debates.
    –Buddhists tend to have fuzzy and hazy ideas on many
    –social issues.

    Meditation if done correctly, as research had shown, bring about deep insights into events, issues and even the people involved. Wisdom will arise naturally and unimpeded by noisy discursive thoughts. Not able to vocalise the insights gained does not mean that a contemplative is not aware of the many issues.

    Many buddhists who shy away fron confrontational politics may over time provide an oasis of truth and clear thinking. The approach while subtle is not without merit.

    Gadfly wrote :

    –5) The concept of gratefulness to family and friends
    –has been distorted to gratefulness to all types of political
    –elite or politic or state power, no matter how authoritarian
    –it is.

    Gratefulness to mother was a contemplation meditation as taught by buddha. Gratefulness as a realisation of interdependence has no particular object – it is to all sentient and none-sentient being.

    I think your conception of gratefulness as practised by buddhists is distorted.

    Gadfly wrote :

    –6) The doctrine of Middle Way has preempted a priori
    –any attempts to make a clear-cut stand on injustice.

    Is there really a clear-cut stand on injustice ? What would you consider as a clear cut stand on injustice ? An eye for an eye ? Would understanding, love , consideration and forgiveness have higher value ?

    Gadfly wrote :

    –7)The focus on or attachment to inner peace has
    –weakened to will to reform society or to advocate
    –for the powerless.

    The powerless are never powerless until we make them so. History of well-intentioned advocacy groups had demonstrated the simple truth that if you take away the dignity of a person or a group you make them dependent and powerless.

    Lack of advocacy does not equal lack of compassion….the skillful means adopted is far more effective than any busybody self appointed saviour of the powerless.

    Gadfly wrote :

    — 8) The concept of nonduality destroys the efforts to call
    –a spade a spade, to speak truth to the power.

    Hah ?

    Gadfly wrote :

    –9) The attachment to harmony weakens critical enquiry
    –and debates.

    Critical enquiry and debates had always been one of the central theme of buddhism. It is no accident that buddhism had been called mind-science. Carl Jung in the early part of the century laughed at his colleagues at a seminar for calling their psychological field “modern” when he revealed that everything they had thought of, buddha had taught and more few thousand years ago.

    Gadfly wrote :

    –10) The attachment to the idea of compassion results
    –in false forgiveness of criminal and unethical acts and
    –in turning a blind eye to evil.

    Buddhists do not turn a blind eye to evil but understood that justice has its own timetable. Compassion do not blind us but allow us to see the good in others. Evil is never subdued with more evil but with love and compassion. To exercise compassionate actions there must be wisdom. You don’t give a fish to the hungry not because you are not compassionate but because you have the wisdom to teach him to fish for himself.

    Even with rigorous examination of evidences and circumstances the court system had a dismal error rate. So who are we with so much less resources, intelligence and wisdom to pass judgement ?

    Gadfly wrote :

    –Buddhism has its own shadow or limitations that it has
    –difficulties to illuminate.

    Try using a screwdriver to hammer in a nail. Buddha had never meant for his teachings to be a social movement. Many with less than noble intentions had tried.

  85. soundsofsilence says:

    Buddhist law often had to bow to reason of State. But in many instances it also provided an ideology for counterforces, inspiring peasant revolts in the name of a millenarianism centered on the coming of the future Maitreya Buddha. In one of these movements, in China, arising at the start of the sixth century c.e., the rebels, using the Buddhist title of “Grand Vehicle” (Mahayana), undertook to rid the world of its “demons”—starting with the era’s Buddhist clergy.

    In Japan, on the other hand, Buddhism managed to pave the way for feudal struggles, creating a new type of religious figure, the “warrior monk.” It is only at the end of the sixteenth century, after centuries of internecine struggles, that the great monasteries were subdued by the military government. The ensuing subordination explains in part why, after the Meiji Restoration (1868), Japanese Buddhism proved no force against militarism, and fell into line with “spiritual mobilization.”

    Thus, Japanese militarism blended Buddhist doctrine with the imperial sauce, reducing it to its simplest expression, to bend it to official propaganda. The Buddhist theory of selflessness served, for instance, to justify giving one’s life for the Emperor, while the notion of the Two Truths (conventional and ultimate) served to explain the contradiction between the principle of respect for human life and patriotic duty. However, these ideas are not merely belated deviations in the necessary adaptation of Buddhism to Japanese culture. They have a long history.

    http://www.sangam.org/articles/view/?id=118

  86. sathya says:

    Hi Morning Dew! You said: “A physical object is not “controlled” by causes and effects. Its expression was determined by complex causes and conditions.: -” you choose “determined”, zentea used “controlled” – it’s just a matter of choice in choosing which words to express what – just like I think that a physical object cannot “express” itself and “its manifestation: would be a better choice of words.

    The focus is: would you like to be “controlled” or “determined” by Mr. N when he comes and celebrate Wesak Day with you?

    This is not a debate about Dharma or Buddhism, the focus is – we Buddhists should wake up and act in different way now!

    You may disagree with this, but I think it is great that at least we can agree to disagreed, and we can also learn from each other like this.

  87. ZenTea says:

    Morning Dew,
    Here I am, wrting and writing again, because I think this Mr. N is coming and coming again, to continue to haunt you and me and people in Malaysia.

    Yes he has Buddha nature, in what ocassion that I said that he doesn’t have Buddha nature? but between someone and a dog (does a dog also has Buddha nature? Hmmmm….it’a Koan huh?!) I would rather spend some time with my cute puppy !

    See how we Buddhists are habituated in using Dharma knowledge in rationLIESING everything? stop looking at the history and quoting irrelevant stories my dear, just act-lah!

    “Jesus said it best when he said that dharma is for those who have sinned.” Are you sure Jesus used the word “Dharma”? from whom did he learnt Dharma from? I like this quotatiion anyway if what you meant by Dharma is Truth. I have no objection if Mr. N was invited with this kind of motivation e.g. to save him from sin, buy hey, let’s be practical – do you think they really invite him for that? so he has been transform into an awakened one? if that’s true, show me some examples and I would be hapy to know that.
    If so, I think once a year is not enough-lah, he should go to Dong Zen everyday,🙂

    Still,
    Doing ZEN, Drinking Tea.

  88. copy cat says:

    Hi Wa wa I totally agreed with what you said so I’ve copied it here as a reminder to myself and everyone:

    “Put aside all philosphocal debate and historical arguements about buddhists, buddhism or dalai lama or gandhi etc or old story of buddists role in the past….

    Put aside whether you are buddhist or what the dotrince says

    Just ask ourselves, as a citizen and son/dautgther of this motherland, do we agree with all the suppressive ways of this current government led by najib -the way polices being used to arrest people, MPs and also the way how the power transition is being make in Perak state.
    Do you think what teh current BN government stands of justice and fairness.

    Too much mental execise can make us sometime live in your own world- such as we say., all phenomenon are our own mind creation.
    i wnat to add- this include also when our mind cannot see the truth in our external mind, we claim it is not exist is another ignorance.
    The worst for those deep in their hearts they know is wrong yet pretend and argue with all types of dotrince to confuse people.

    whether you are buddhists or not, whether you refer to any dotrince. whether ghandi is so lauzy, whethe dalai lama is too political.

    the important is, what is your stands in response to all these injustuice happeining now? no dalai lama no ganhi no buddha will answer us !”

    wa wa

  89. Bodhi Heart says:

    Hi Gadfly,
    You are right when you say that “Buddhism has its own shadow or limitations that it has difficulties to illuminate.”

    I truly feel this as a Buddhist, who would sincerely admit that there are quite some faults and self-created limitation in Buddhist organizations.

    Luckily that the Dharma (the essence of Truth) is always pure and profound, whether the “ism” is polluted or not.
    Dharma (the Truth) is the tea, Buddhism or Budhist set-ups are just cups.
    Drink the tea, don’t bite the cups – don’t fight for the cups!
    Jom, pergi teh tarik!!!

    Gadfly – May 12, 2009 at 3:30 pm

  90. ong says:

    why Buddhist have to fear of BN–especially umno, they wont tell the truth in front of umno, this is teaching of buddha???why our beloved MB selangor-kahlid dont in the invited list. he is the current memteri besar selangor.this is because buddhist afraid of umno.so sad to say that.we buddhist must be independent and neutral. but most of our buddhist society have to worry and care about umno before do anything even the thing is for the benefit and welfare of all.
    another issue, why the YBAM Contemporary Buddhist Seminar on april 09 need to cancel due to pull out of tee keat in last minute. YBAM, all party and included 3 other speakers already ready to the seminar. The seminar was to have been organized in October 2008 but was postponed to April 2009 to accommodate a suitable date for Tee Keat. and YBAM has requested Tee Keat to nominate a senior party official as a replacement if he cant attend, but he fail to do that, emm can say he dont want to do that. Anyway , the seminar still can be run as normal because we have 3 more very great speakers they are DAP and Chief Minister of the State of Pulau Pinang,YAB Lim Guan Eng and our two Buddhist leaders, Venerable Dhammavuddho Maha Thera and Datuk Dr. Victor Wee. They are all ready.But YBAM just cancel the seminar in last minute because of tee keat dont want to attend and pull out in last minute.Buddhist and YBAM fear of umno…sad sad sad!!!!

  91. impala says:

    Ong,

    Re: what you wrote, those organisers of the seminar must have been MCA/Gerakan loyalists. Otherwise, there is no excuse for the cancellation.

  92. wits0 says:

    “See how we Buddhists are habituated in using Dharma knowledge in rationLIESING everything? stop looking at the history and quoting irrelevant stories my dear, just act-lah!” – Zen Tea

    As an organisation, they do act. It dances with the wolves and serve their own agenda. It was perverted half truths and nihilism that made the Banzai warriors for Imperial Japan. Here, making conformistic and narrowly self-absorbed fundamentalists is the aim.

    It’s become fruitlessly inconsequential to ask if anyone has a ‘Buddha nature’ when it is deeply buried by tiers of Darkness.

  93. bee yong says:

    To Morning Dew 13May at 12.11p.m.
    Allow me to meditate between you and Gadfly.
    As a outsider I notice that your perception in trying to reply Gadfly’s view is based on multi-lives theory while Gadfly was submitting view based on one-life theory. It will be quite fruitless to compromise with different theory background. At best, ignore them.

  94. Morning Dew says:

    sathya wrote :

    –you choose “determined”, zentea used “controlled” – it’s
    –just a matter of choice in choosing which words to express
    –what – just like I think that a physical object cannot
    –“express” itself and “its manifestation: would be a better
    –choice of words.

    Control suggest intelligent will and buddha had always spoke of the naturally determined order of things. A fortuitous confluence of causes and conditions determine the phenomena. Buddha used the metaphor of 3 reed standing.

    You are right that the word “manifestation” is a better word than “expression”

    Sathya wrote :

    –The focus is: would you like to be “controlled” or
    –“determined” by Mr. N when he comes and celebrate
    –Wesak Day with you?

    Buddha did teach collective unconscious, eventhough it was carl jung who coined the term. Collective karma and affinity had brought all of you together on that fateful day. Affinity can be due to hatred, not just love or friendship as most people mistakenly thought.

    When you knew that N was there at the celebration you had a choice. You could leave, say a prayer for him and tuya or stay and sulk.

    If I were you I would say a prayer for him and tuya and rejoiced in my heart that buddha had walk the surface of the earth 2500 years ago and reflect on his teachings to see how it would help me along the path towards liberation.

  95. Morning Dew says:

    Thanks bee yong for the advice. I responded to Gadfly because of his many bald assertions that were wrong or flawed regarding buddhism. It is for the good of buddhadharma….nothing else. I don’t know who he is and I hope he doesn’t know who I am ….but we won’t know.

    So it is nothing personal.

  96. Morning Dew says:

    Zentea retorted ”

    –Here I am, wrting and writing again, because I think
    –this Mr. N is coming and coming again, to continue to
    –haunt you and me and people in Malaysia.

    Let me relate another irrelevant story😎. Once there were two monks trying to cross a river(zen had quite a few variation of this story – so I will make up mind as I go along). The river was swollen by a heavy downpour the previous night. When the found a narrow and crossing that looked shallow enough they saw a woman, very beautiful woman at that, trying to cross. The woman pleaded with the two monks to help her get across as she was afraid of the rushing water. The elder monk agreed and told the woman to jump on to his back. The young monk was furious and fuming at the thought that this elder monk would break his vinaya by touching the woman.

    Once across the river the monks and the woman went their separate ways. The young monk repeatedly and obsessively beheld in his mind how bad the elder monk had behaved. Half an hour later when he could no longer contain his emotion he blurted out his contempt for the elder monk and started hurling insults at him. When he had finished the elder monk gently asked this young monk “why are you still carrying the woman when he had drop her off half an hour ago ?”

    Najib, or whatever you thought of him exists within your mindstream. Deal with that and perhaps you could see what is skillful means.

    ZenTea clever reply :

    –Yes he has Buddha nature, in what ocassion that I said
    –that he doesn’t have Buddha nature? but between
    –someone and a dog (does a dog also has Buddha
    –nature? Hmmmm….it’a Koan huh?!) I would rather
    –spend some time with my cute puppy !

    A single thought gives rise to a thousand delusion.

    Spending time with your puppy is your choice but don’t do it because you hated N😎.

    ZenTea regurgitated :

    –See how we Buddhists are habituated in using
    –Dharma knowledge in rationLIESING everything? stop
    –looking at the history and quoting irrelevant stories
    –my dear, just act-lah!

    So you must really think that you are very clever.

    Most of the time I had tried to clarify the various misconception of what Buddha taught. There were also some very denigrating remarks hurled at buddhists and buddhism. If this is “rationalising everything” than I am guilty. What then is your excuse for not standing up for buddha dharma ? Is it stupidity or was it a lot more comforting to just follow the crowd – no matter how damaging it is to buddhadharma ?

    Instead of just hurling irreverent remarks, point out which story I had used from the sutra that was irrelevant ? As a buddhist, if I do not look to the sutra, jataka and vinaya for guidance where do you think I should look to ? You ?

    Your rabble rousing is like an ugly girl that is all dressed up and has no where to go. [Note : I do not know if you were a girl or if you were one I do not know if you were ugly – it is just a metaphor]

    Recommend some skillful means that will help us in our dharma and I will follow you.
    ZenTea Confusion 8-)))) :

    –“Jesus said it best when he said that dharma is for those
    –who have sinned.” Are you sure Jesus used the
    –word “Dharma”? from whom did he learnt Dharma from?

    I had exercised poetic license. I thought it was obvious and since Susan Loone is a christian I thought it fitting to add that quote.

    — I like this quotatiion anyway if what you meant by Dharma is –Truth.

    Yes. Dharma has many meaning and in buddhadharma anything that helps cultivate the good heart is dharma. Buddha was that generous as a spiritual teacher.

    ZenTea overflowing pot :

    — I have no objection if Mr. N was invited with this kind of
    –motivation e.g. to save him from sin, buy hey, let’s be
    –practical – do you think they really invite him for that?
    –so he has been transform into an awakened one? if that’s
    –true, show me some examples and I would be hapy to
    –know that.

    I do not know the motivation of the invitee and I wouldn’t want to second guess what it was. Buddhism, particularly mahayana buddhism(zen included) believes in multi-life existence and our practice should include cultivating good seeds and to help as many others to do the same. It is hoped that in time to come this good seeds will bear fruits and create the right environment supportive of the person’s spiritual progress.

    Who knows that when N died he thought of the good deeds of buddhists on that fateful day and if you understand the mechanism as taught by buddha you will know that his last connecting thought will determine where he will be borned. Since he thought of the buddhists he could be reborned in a buddhist family. Maybe even yours !!!…….gosh ! do I mean that there is no punishment for such a bad person ? Ok let me exercise a bit of poetic license again.

    Due to his many bad deeds he was borned with sores in his arsehole and suffer terrible pain from leukemia.

    There !!! Are you happy now ! 8-)))) Do you really hate him that much ?

  97. mohdrahmat says:

    Your rabble rousing is like an ugly girl that is all dressed up and has no where to go. [Note : I do not know if you were a girl or if you were one I do not know if you were ugly – it is just a metaphor]
    *******************************************************

    So for someone who is so enlightened to think that way…..not bad

  98. Morning Dew says:

    wit0 wrote :

    –As an organisation, they do act. It dances with the
    –wolves and serve their own agenda.

    ALL organisations infested with people interested in gaining political power and influence will dance to any tune to serve their narrow selfish agenda.

    –It was perverted half truths and nihilism that made the Banzai –warriors for Imperial Japan.

    Nihilism had always a big problem in buddhism. Even when buddha was still alive. But how is this relevant to inviting N ? Or are you suggesting that fo guang shan had a hidden agenda to make banzai warriors out of her followers ?

    –Here, making conformistic and
    –narrowly self-absorbed fundamentalists is the aim.

    In christianity and islam the word “fundamentalists” carry with it very negative connotation with rightist and violent leaning. In buddhism the label “fundamentalist” really carries with it the connotation of a person with compassion and wisdom who knows how to steer the middle path.

    So what do you think buddhists of the country should do ?

    It’s become fruitlessly inconsequential to ask if anyone has a ‘Buddha nature’ when it is deeply buried by tiers of Darkness.

  99. mohdrahmat says:

    “Who knows that when N died he thought of the good deeds of buddhists on that fateful day and if you understand the mechanism as taught by buddha you will know that his last connecting thought will determine where he will be borned.”

    There is an expression – pigs have wings.

  100. mohdrahmat says:

    “So what do you think buddhists of the country should do ?”

    VOTE BN

  101. […] Najib, Dottie and Buddhism. […]

  102. Joe Black says:

    Dear Susan and Fellow Bhikkus,

    Beware of the Aversion we may tend to develop towards the new PM. It is good that he is interested in Buddhism. Since he has espoused the virtues of what little he may know about Buddhism, we should look at such views in positive light.

    I suggest the relevent teachers should bring to him the teaching for him to learn and improve himself…..

  103. Morning Dew says:

    wit0 wrote :

    –It’s become fruitlessly inconsequential to ask if anyone
    –has a ‘Buddha nature’ when it is deeply buried by tiers
    –of Darkness.

    I missed this earlier on.

    What you have described is not wrong but it is certainly not fruitless nor inconsequential. It is the very basis for all sentient beings to treat other sentient beings with compassionate. It is also the very basis of the mahayana belief that due to our delusions(tiers of darkness) we could not see or discern who is a bodhisattva who had come to help us. This is why mahayana buddhists encourage her adherents to view all enemies as their teacher.

    Look deeply why you hate n so much and a glimmer of clarity may actually arise.

    Am I a cybertrooper out to defend n or am I standing up for buddhadarma ? Whatever you see will be what is in your heart .

  104. mohdrahmat says:

    Aiyoh apa ni, tak lama lagi Najib tu “bodhisattva who had come to help us”

  105. matra says:

    kekeke adolf hitler was “bodhisattva who had come to help jews”

  106. Morning Dew says:

    mohdrahmat vomited :

    –There is an expression – pigs have wings.

    This is rahmat from god.

  107. matra says:

    Why, morning dew you are so enlightened. You must be bodhisattva

  108. AFP says:

    Satu lagi Projek dari PDRM——

    Agence France-Presse – 5/13/2009 4:14 AM GMT
    Malaysia police to shame thieves

    Malaysian police on Wednesday proposed curbing an epidemic of violent “snatch thefts” by shaming culprits who would be forced to sweep the streets and wear signs revealing their crime.

    Violent thefts are rampant in Malaysia, typically carried out by pairs of criminals riding on motorbikes, but there has been a fresh uproar after the deaths of two pregnant women who were thrown to the ground while being robbed.

    Mohamad Bakri Mohamad Zinin, criminal investigation department director, said culprits should do community service like sweeping the streets where they once preyed, while wearing signs declaring: “I am a snatch thief.”

    “We are proposing the idea to the public. Let them comment on it,” he told AFP, adding that police would consider the response before implementing the new measures.

    Bakri said conventional punishments were not successfully curbing the epidemic of snatch thefts.

    Victims are usually women and the elderly, who are targeted as they go about their daily business and deaths and serious injuries are common in the attacks in which thieves sometimes use machetes and clubs.

  109. wits0 says:

    Morning Dew, “This is why mahayana buddhists encourage her adherents to view all enemies as their teacher.”

    Hahaha. Have you read Zorro’s Blog and his analogy of the “Fart Room”. When you have acclimatized yourself to that “Fart Room” and learned something precious that another missed, then it is vital that you should relate that to us.

    “Look deeply why you hate so much and a glimmer of clarity may actually arise. ”

    Would that also suggest that the passion of Zorro in his Blog is founded on the illegitimate passion of hate?

    Tolerance is one thing but self repression is another.

    When thrice, as it happened, a cobra ventured into my house, my legitimate domain, I had to kill it. I feel sorry for them afterwards but they had no right to be where they are not supposed to be, given their own dangerous nature. Not everyone lives in the genteel setting of urban lifestyle all their lives ; some have also experienced more ‘wild’ environment.

  110. Gadfly says:

    The early or original Buddhism does not have this concept of “everyone has Buddha-nature”. It is a concept constructed of later age by the Mahayanist. It is useful if applied appropriately, especially when we live in the times of artificially created religious apartheid.

    The idea of dependent origination defines Buddhism from other religions. It deconstructs anything that the mind perceives as solid, fixed, permanent. It proposes a ‘law of causation’ – “If condition B exists, then condition A must have existed.” ‘Buddha nature’ means that there is something eternal, universal or something of essence underlying beneath the phenomenon world. This is clearly a contradiction if you believe them both at the same time. You do not need to have all these conditionalities for the Buddha-nature. It is there. Does this include Hitler? Don’t ask me. I don’t know.

    It is perfectly OK if you don’t subscribe to this metaphysical hypothesis. It is also OK if you do.

  111. wongnoball says:

    mohdrahmat vomited :
    –There is an expression – pigs have wings.
    This is rahmat from god.

    Morning Dew – May 13, 2009 at 6:02 pm
    *****************************************

    kekeke this enlightened clown from tsu koon`s office dunno what “pigs have wings” mean.Rahmat from god this ridiculous buddhie thinks kekeke
    chap-to-kam mean morning dew

  112. wits0 says:

    “It is perfectly OK if you don’t subscribe to this metaphysical hypothesis. It is also OK if you do.” – Gadfly

    To attempt to fit Reality into a metaphysical hypothesis carry its own befuddling hazard.

  113. wongnoball says:

    square pegs in round wholes fit very well HAHAHAHAHAHA

  114. wa wa says:

    i think the debates from all our readers here indeed reflected how deep concern we are towards the true intepration of buddha teachings, dharma and etc. Again also the debates are interesting esp in this cyber space.
    we hardly listen to our buddhists fellow debate the doctrine and link with the social justice and democracy matter.
    personally am so thankful to u all have debated for day and night since last few days on this topic🙂

    somehow again i wish to raise issue of whether you like Mr N to be the VIP in Fu Guang Shan or whether he really appreaciate dharma teachings etc…. it is not so important.

    however ,the key issue are :
    1> what is our role and stand in the midst of deepening of democracy crisis in this nation?
    -the misused of the police power in interverning the legislation power-?
    -The used of violence in detaiing simply just wnat to express their views?
    -The power clinging politikus like what they did in perak- are we endorsed this actions?

    pls put your dharma and buddha aside and away from your head awhile and back to crisis that is ongoing now…whether what buddha had said and taught, u will be meaningless if you are not making your conscience be hones and clear for the justice. as we all potentially be the buddha as well. This new age buddhas for sure can be much different or more social engaged buddha than the previous one.🙂

    again am sure you will say,
    the “reality” we are seeing now -such as in perak is the mind creation –
    hmmm… thats fine.
    so if mind creation is so absolute and ultimate truth, can u also “imagine:” fairness, justice and true democracy prevail on this motherland.?
    then i said u are true boddhisatva
    even u are “boddgisatav in mind” not ” on act:”, but ur strong aspirations are beuatiful and intention is most important!!

    pls set the mind for this!
    look at what the Coucil of churches malaysia (CCM) had raised on the issue of democracy and social justice- as the spiritual organisation that speak on true conscience.

  115. wits0 says:

    Wongnoball : “square pegs in round wholes fit very well HAHAHAHAHAHA

    Actually round pegs are also available but for some ‘mysterious’ reason the person chose to avoid recognising or using them.

    Wa wa, I believe I understand what you’re saying and wish to suggest that while meditation is a way of getting to understand who we really are, it is also a prelude to sound(er)action as well. It is not meant as a substitute for action, in inaction.

    While the “Reality” (in Samsara) that surrounds us is a projection of combined minds, it is also capable of being bettered by our own effort. No comics superheroes or Boddhisatvas will appear and do those things which we are expected to do for ourselves.

  116. ZEN Tea says:

    Hi Morning Dew,
    You said: “Spending time with your puppy is your choice but don’t do it because you hated N😎. ”

    Now I see how irrelevant that statement could be.
    When I say I would rather choose A than B – it doesn’t mean that I choose A BECAUSE of B.
    Of course spending time with puppy is my choice, you are assuming that I hate N?
    at least I try to love him (to say I REALLY love him is hypocracy): , but I also love my country, and I love democracy and people in Perak as well. I have deep feelings with these issues.
    I am a Buddhist but I’m also a human being with tears and laughter, with courage and fear, with rights and wrongs – just like you and others, including N and BN.
    To love someone doesn’t mean that we have to like him – know the difference?
    and as common sense, nobody would hug a dog just because he or she dislikes N, right?
    “A single thought gives rise to a thousand delusion.” – agreed, and that’s true, but I think you should tell this truth to N – as he is ” the man who gives rise to a thousand suffering”.
    You said: “What then is your excuse for not standing up for buddha dharma ? Is it stupidity or was it a lot more comforting to just follow the crowd – no matter how damaging it is to buddhadharma ?” – pls tell me how and who are damaging the Buddhadharma? You wanna start a Dharma war with them or what? Truth cannot be destroyed or distorted – I have confidence in this.
    Maybe your inner insecurity or comfort zone is shaken, as you are entering into a area where your old knowledge and past beliefs could not supply you a reference point on how to act and re-act – pls welcome as this is a great sign of self-growth, for me and you, Buddhist or not Buddhist, just let go this concept.

    ( IS Buddha a Buddhist? )

    You said: “As a buddhist, if I do not look to the sutra, jataka and vinaya for guidance where do you think I should look to ? You ?” Morning Dew, I am a nobody here to be your guru, nor fo I dare to think that I’m a qualified student. But we can surely learn from each other if we really want to. Where do I think you shd really look to? Your wisdom is your best teacher.

    You keep on “praising” me as clever, I really don’t know why. I assume you really meant it, since “sincerity” is a basic quality of a true Buddhist – and we all really know now how hard you tried to be a so-called “Good Buddhist”. I admire your dedication in this aspect.

    Sorry that I am slightly a different one. I like Dharma/ Truth – but for me the “ism” is not that important.
    Sorry if you are upset about this. I didn’t mean to upset you, but if that’s what you felt, than it’s time to walk your talk since you said: “Najib, or whatever you thought of him exists within your mindstream. Deal with that and perhaps you could see what is skillful means.” – I rehrase it here – “ZenTEa, or whatever you thought of him exists within your mindstream. Deal with that and perhaps you could see what is skillful means?”

    “Your rabble rousing is like an ugly girl that is all dressed up and has no where to go. [Note : I do not know if you were a girl or if you were one I do not know if you were ugly – it is just a metaphor]” – I respect your right or “licence” to say that I am rabble rousing, but let me tell you the metaphor that you used does make me feel that you are trying to stir up something in me (again, you have all the right to say that “Everything is Mind”). I am frank with this, and I am not pretending that I am a holy man without faults or I am emotionless. I take it as a Mind Training and I thank you for giving me chance to have some self-reflection. I try to walk my talk since I said “responsibility = response- ability”.

    What I would like to suggest and encourage is that: let’s FEEL more and ask our hearts – what does our feelings tell us? what should I do now and next?

    “I had exercised poetic license. I thought it was obvious and since Susan Loone is a christian I thought it fitting to add that quote. ” I do respect your poetic “licence”, but it is a mistake to use the word Dharma here. Let’s look at what you wrote “Jesus said it best when he said that dharma is for those who have sinned.” – this is misleading and since jesus NEVER use that word and dharma does mean many things to many people – why don’t you just say: “sorry, I should have used another word” – This I call rationaLIEsation.

    I am also glad that my pot is overflowing since I have some more tea to share with you, and it seems that you are drinking too much there. Pause a bit, rest a while, and we can share some tea again.

    I don’t believe in “pumishment” and I don’t want N to be punished, what I do want is a paradigm shift amongst the Buddhists, I want to see some social-engaged commitements. At least we ( I use the word WE since me myself are included, I also fall into the traps of self-deceiving some times, a reminder is always neccesary.)

    Ok, my baby is coming to this world soon, so sorry, No chance for N now. But if he happened to be my next child in future, I would be very much happy to teach him Dharma.

    You ask “Do you really hate him that much ?”
    NO is my sincere answer here.

    Your Buddhist theories are flowing here and there.
    But why are you defending something that no one has the interests to attack?

    Ideation without execution is merely a delusion. you said “Recommend some skillful means that will help us in our dharma and I will follow you.
    ZenTea Confusion 8-)))) :”

    Ok, to clear-away my Zentea confucian, let’s do these together:

    1. If N wasn’t invited, then DON’t INVITE HIM in the begining. That’s my point.
    2. If N wanna come and we don’t want him to come, then what can we do?
    a) tell him directly if we dare.
    b) tell him that we are having a silent retreat this time on wesak day.
    c) tell him that we are not interested in celebrating Wesak Day with politicians, either from Bn or PR.

    3)If he really insist that he should come, OK, welcome.
    a) tell him that our Wesak Theme this year is “Buddhism and Good Governance” – both BN and PR leaders are welcome to join the Seminar. There’s a Q and A sesions in the afternoon, and Anwar said he is interested to come as well. ( I bet he won’t come!)
    b) Perakian Buddhists want to celebrate Wesak with him together, and Nizar their Menteri Besar will come as well.
    c) A special prayer ceremony for ALLtantunya will be held – pls join and pray together.
    d) we would like to take this opportunity to request your permission to end once and for all, the political and constitional crises in Perak.
    e) we, as a Buddhist community who care and love, would like to express our deep concerns about the misuse of power and issues like corruption, dirty politics etc etc with you, and an action plan to end all these dramas will be submiited to you upon your arrival.

    and more and more and more….

    It’s not an issue of whether he is allowed to come or not, it’s an issue of we skilfully reject him if we don’t want him to come, and how we skilfully tell him what’s in out hearts if he really does come. it’s not so much a matter of right or wrong, it’s matter of “how to” and “Just Do it”.

    Don’t follow me morning dew, follow your inner guidance and conscience. Your heart will tell you what to do next.

    If only your cup is empty, then Zen is simply just there.

    cheers,
    Zen Tea

  117. wits0 says:

    Zen Tea, I too would prefer to pet and talk to a mutt than associate with mean people. You can feel its contentment and happiness which is fully returned. It’s love and trust is unconditional ; to it you’re family. It’s Buddha nature is right there unfettered by the Dark side that encumbers some people and poisons the atmosphere.

  118. ZEN Tea says:

    Yes wits0, we have so much more to learn from babies and pets🙂. They are so original and un-pretentive. Their being-ness is infused with so much energy and you know what – they are not bound by any dogmatic mentality!

  119. carew says:

    Only humans can be dogmatic, not dogs.
    Nang budhi nang,…….

  120. sathya says:

    Morning Dew,
    If only you know your own impermanent nature as morning dew~ you exist only in the morning and you don’t witness the darkness of the night.
    You keep on telling stories after stories after stories….
    In a spiritual workshop, teacher suggests :”let’s discuss an issue and learn from each other.”
    The student keep on telling one story after the other.
    Teacher says: “what’s the issue? what’s your question? where’s the point?”
    Story telling is a cunning way to avoid feelings and inner explorations….

  121. hamsup says:

    After making chapatis in sikh temple, giving chinese leaders erection with buddhist temple visit, now the fornicator PM of malaysia is destroying the Triang chapel in Pahang. He must have been splashed by morning dew.

  122. sathya says:

    There are two women at the river.
    And one fundamendalist monk is the boat man.
    He told one of them: “I can’t send you cross over to the other side…”
    The lady ask: : “Why?”
    The monk says: “Because your T-shirt says “say No to Najib” and “say No to ISA” and “let’s pray for ALL-Tan-tuya” and…. and you know what, we have just celebrated our Wesak day with the new PM…”
    “But that’s NOT the main reason,” the monk added.
    “Then what IS?” the poor ugly lady is all dressed up but she feels that she has no where to go for help now.
    Then the monk points at the other lady and says:
    “She’s a BUDDHIST and YOU ARE NOT!”
    “I ONLY need BUDDHISTS to continue my MONKEY Business, understand?” He shouted loudly.

  123. hamsup says:

    morning dew splash

    Tue, 01 Jul 2008

    Taipei – A Taiwan Buddhist monk has been sentenced to 80 days in jail for masturbating in public, a newspaper said Tuesday. Chen Poh-ming, 42, masturbated in front of a female guide on February 16 while visiting the Paper Museum in Puli, central Taiwan, the United Daily News reported. He performed the lewd act while wearing a yellow monk’s robe.

  124. sathya says:

    That’s a synchroniciy huh?
    Yes monks have faults and Buddhist leaders made mistakes.
    Just be brave enough to admit and accept the reality and have the courage to grow and learn – anyone can do this if he/she wants to.

  125. Gadfly says:

    Morning Dew,
    Thanks for your point-by-point comments. Referring to your comment of my “bald asserttion that were wrong and flawed regarding buddhism”, I would like to say a word or two. Since this is commetary on blogs, we are always constrained to provide well-structured arguments – perspectives need to be clearly stated, claims need to be supported by evidence, evidences need to be critically evaluated, theories or claims need to be assessed whether the evidences provide the support. Also, perspectives need to compared and contrasted with other perpectives to see whether they contradict, complement or co-exist with each other. And resources need to examined

    Much of the above hinges on the question of interpretation – Buddhist hermeneutics. What texts? Primary or secondary? Pali or Sanskrit? Which tradition? and so on. Many of the teachings in each tradition are valid only within the confines of its own logic and interpretation. It may not make sense to others outside the systems we have been exposed to.

    It is important to appreciate the methods of interpretation so that we won’t judge other perspectives as ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ too readily. Then, a dialogical discourse is possible. Spiritual liberation should include liberation from the tyranny of tradtions.

  126. ZenTea says:

    Well said, Gadfly.
    Attachment to views – either right or wrong views – is still attachment.
    We can grow and learn through meaningful dialogue but not monologue.

    cheers.

  127. wits0 says:

    The tyranny of tradtions is exactly why and where the Kalama Sutra is very necessary. We, individually, always need that courage of conviction and discernment not depicted by tradition and its limited examples/nuances of different times and experience.

    The traditional/conventional rendition of “Mahatma” Gandhi e.g., is that of a peace and non-violence icon but a closer examination says this is just a populist convenience and that he was also idiosyncratic and erratic.

  128. ZenTea says:

    Hi, Bee Yong.
    Your meaning about ‘Chair’ and Person, CEO etc etc are well understood, no worry about that.
    But I think I have to clarify something with you.

    You used another example:
    “Let me put it into another dimension. In any business organization there will be a CEO, division head, section head, departmental head, etc. In most case not all heads personally like the CEO for one reason or another. However, no matter how much we dislike or even hate the CEO, he is still the CEO for the company (you can’t change that; only the shareholders/directors could). Now, if the CEO wanted to visit or take part in the activities of your section or department, you as a head (who personally hate this person) ‘must still allow him to vist of partake any activity in your section/dept, failing which you could be sacked. You may not respect this person personally but you must respect ‘the position’ of a CEO. I trust this clarify the ‘Chair’ and ‘Person’.”

    Ok let N be the CEO of the country (in fact he truly is now) – no one will argue about that. But if you use this example as a basis to extend our discussion, then WE ARE NOT the CEO’s WORKERS (I swear I would not work for this kind of Boss!)- WE RAKYAT MALAYSIA are the SHAREHOLDERS and DIRECTORS – we have a vote in hand, we have freedom of speech, and pls remember that “People Are the Boss”, remember to remember this !

    So what can the Shareholders and Directors do if the CEO is not performing well? well, you tell me. We can discuss about this in great length.

    You said: “You may not respect this person personally but you must respect ‘the position’ of a CEO. I trust this clarify the ‘Chair’ and ‘Person’.”

    I think we, majority of the Malaysian, truly understand and respect the ‘position’ of our country’s CEO – it’s him who yet to earn our basic respect, NOT his position. I never heard or perceive in any ocassion that someone is so naive to say that “N is NOT our PM” or “the position of the PM and its power should be abolished in Malaysia.” – NO, not even once. BUt I did, in many occasions, know that many Rakyats are saying that N is not QUALIFIED (even from the begining…) to continue to be the CEO of Malaysia.

    Our CEO is doing just fine and it seems like he enjoys his “power-full” work very much, but the “position” of Malaysian Democary is in deep troubles. It cries for help, awaiting some compasionate actions from me and you – do you hear it?

    Rakyat has the power to change their CEO. Rakyat are the Boss.
    And remember, never never should we have the mentality that we are someone’s slave or subordinates (in this case). No CEO can stay forever – We can change this CEO in the coming election.

    So don’t worry that we are against the Chair or the position, nothing like that. I would like to say it again (as I have wrote before):
    “saying NO to the VIP (CEO) on the chair (position) doesn’t mean we are disrespecting the Chair (position) – or rather I would say – it’s because we understand and respect the meaning and dignity of the Chair (position) therefore we SHOULD discontinue to let this kind of person to sit on the Chair (or hold the position). By following the model of a fearless Bodhisattva – we should dare to stop him from continuing his misbehaviours in misusing the power represented by the Chair/position.”

    Clear?

    You are defending for the Chair, but we are talking about the person who sits on it – so that’s the difference. And if we continue to talk like this, then we are just wasting time since one of us will be running away from the main focus on the real issue – in this case – The CEO but NOT the position of the CEO.

    That’s why I am interested about the tea but NOT the cup. I am not against any cup – use the cup at your free will, interprete its form, shape, color or other details in any way you want to. And nobody will grab yours or mine. BTW the Cup is merely a tool, a symbol, a functional concept. A cup is just a cup.

    The problem now is about the tea within it – it taste pretty bad and we think it’s time to throw it away – or at least don’t drink it, as it will cause stomachache to you and me and many “sentient beings” out there. But I really NEVER ask anyone to throw away their cups, or to doubt the functionality and validity of their cups.

    Further more, there’s no rules in the constitution that says “If you respect the Cup, then you are NOT allowed to critisize the Tea”, right?

    Some good tea from the other pot is right here waiting.
    Want to have some?

    Empty your cup. I’ll pour some for you.

    Zen Teh Hijau

  129. Gadfly says:

    How to situate the modern concept of human rights into the core concepts of Voidness and dependent origination? Possible? Necessary? Useful?

    You may find this link useful for further exploration into this subject.

    http://www.buddhistethics.org/2/keown2.html

  130. Samdup says:

    My Buddhist guru was invited by the Buddhist association, so he attended. I was there because I was asked by my guru to accompany him. Ong Tee Kiat and Koh Tsu Koonas well as the nun who made the first speech were pouring praises on Najib and Rosmah. Even went to the extent of saying “today’s event is made more noble with the presence of the PM and his wife”. After the ceremony, my guru was puzzled and commented to me that on Wesak day we should be praising Buddha, not Najib. He also observed that there was political elements in the speeches by the VIPs, which he said is not appropriate. My guru said from next year, he will not attend again if they invite such “VIPs” again.

  131. wits0 says:

    Thanks for the first hand report Samdup. That’s why I can’t associate myself to an institution as such.

  132. I and some friends are keen to start a blog that welcome all writtuing that making contriobution towards the budhists views of social engaged. The blog welcome writers who are good in dotrine and able to link the dharma teachings and dotrine from any traditions- to highlight that buddhism do answer to society and social cause.
    and also examples of the past and now, how the many others sangha and social engaged buddhsist had controibuted to the betterment and changes of society with its indepedency not being poluted by power games of the political partu-power/

    these writting or writers can be from any tradition
    it is a non sectarian one, non institution and work together as equally collective manner.🙂

    if any of you who share the similar dream, vision and aspirations
    pls write to:
    trinleychodron@gmail.com

    my website is: http://www.trinleychodron.wordpress.com

    we walk the buddha path with deep impartial compassionate heart , and also socially engaged. dream we can build together!

    warmly
    trinley chodron
    Malaysia

  133. Gadfly says:

    Trinley Chodron, a great and worthy attempt to focus on issues of social justice from the perspectives of Buddhist social engagement which is so much lacking in the Malaysian social-cultural context.

  134. ZenTea says:

    Samdup – thank you for your precious info!
    Trinley Chodron – Thanks and great job there!
    wits0 and Gadfly and all – let’s write and speak and do more!
    We can all make a difference – yeah!🙂

  135. Sathya says:

    The Buddha on Righteousness…

    “He who for himself or others craves not for sons or power or wealth, who puts not his own success before the success of righteousness, he is virtuous, and righteous and wise. ”

    – Buddha

  136. wits0 says:

    Gadfly, someone said that your “bald asserttion that were wrong and flawed regarding Buddhism”. The same suggests that the iconic Gandhi is totally unassailable. The matter of any point by point “dissertation” gets to be a bit tedious when constricted and not really original.

    The person also asked if I think he’s a cybertrooper and this makes me remember a certain Chaptokam, an MCA elite one that flopped in steering opinion his way. 😀

    Can we ask the same to explain how come those South east asian (Buddhist ones) like Laos, Cambodia, Burma and now even Thailand went through such tragedies and travails, these last few decades? What went wrong and was disastrously lacking from their Buddhist traditions? These are such an unacceptable contradiction to their given ethos and known tradition. How all neighbouring countries to Burma are only giving fairly useless lip service only to human rights abuses of a high degree?

    Zen tea, if the tea is to be served in a cup, the cup is expected to be worthy of the tea too. Just praising the cup does not improve the quality of the tea surely.

  137. wits0 says:

    Sathya:
    The Buddha on Righteousness…

    “He who for himself or others craves not for sons or power or wealth, who puts not his own success before the success of righteousness, he is virtuous, and righteous and wise. ”

    – Buddha
    ——————————————–
    True, but this itself isn’t that easy to accomplish given the nature and ways and drives of this world. You may have to be content with being less than rich though fairly comfortable through reduced attachments and lessening all those ensuing responsibilities that follow worldly attachment of the physical nature. Everything has a price and that certainly include attaining that greater modicum of peace. Society currently is driven by the, “Winning(even at any cost) is everything frenzy.

  138. Sathya says:

    Hi wits0,
    It’s not easy, but it is also not impossible.
    When we reach a Critical Mass, things just change by itself. We’ve moved 136 responses forward now ( I hope so…maybe three steps forward and two steps backward…who knows anyway)
    Society currently is driven by the “Winning(even at any cost) is everything frenzy” – you are right, but we are the drivers right?tighten your seat belt, we are going to”WIN-WIN” City for Makan Angin!
    I also like this quotable quote a lot:
    “Be the Change that You want to see in this world”.
    I hope you would get inspired by the wisdom energy, yeah?!!
    The beautiful part is, for a Bodhisattva Warrior, only Egos die, and everyone wins in the battle of truth – even the demons are saved.
    How to do it? I don’t really know. But at least if we DECIDE to do it together – that’s good enough for a great start.
    Everything is possible….
    Even the “impossible” is also possible…

    My high school english teacher used to ask us: “Do you know that there’s an answer to ANY questions you may ask?”
    we shaked our heads.
    “Let me tell you the answer,” he said.
    The Answer is:
    “IT DEPENDS….”

  139. ZEN Tea says:

    Yalah I agree that some cups are even polluted now…
    Try to use a diffrent cup is also good I think – if we can’t wash it clean…

  140. wits0 says:

    “My high school english teacher used to ask us: “Do you know that there’s an answer to ANY questions you may ask?”..” – Sathya

    In my time (we have real teachers then) one said to us, “Do not try to change the world, change yourself for the better.” We have teachers (from just teachers’ training college) of quality and possessing insight those days.

    I guess I was one of the worthy student who remembers that line from decades ago. 😉 Later musing on it I realised how easy it was for people to do what’s so erroneously common – to try to change the world, never themselves.

    Btw, the only claim of Koh Tsu Koon being in the know about Buddhism was simply that he studied at the Penang Por Thay primary school.

  141. Bodhi Heart says:

    maybe he used to come into the Dharma (or Drama?) class from the back door…hehehe how come we never see him one???

  142. Bodhi Heart says:

    his understanding about the dharma maybe is primary school level loh?!

  143. Menyalak-er says:

    Yo guys, my 1 sen worth on that self serving kpi goy: the only religion he really professes is self preservation. Being an invertebrate, he’s an excellent ‘listener’ – only to himself besides being a bodok-er without peer. Nice goy! Charisma – zero, discernment – negative, assertiveness – negative… etc.
    It’s truly a wonder that he was a cm for penang for so long.

  144. penang guy says:

    some places where some Buddhist leaders can go for some classes on “Engagement on Local Politics”:

    1. PR
    2. PKR
    3. RPK

    You can choose more…. the more you pick, the more merits you will gain in the next coming election….

  145. wits0 says:

    “It’s truly a wonder that he was a cm for penang for so long.”

    Chinless, spineless wonder. A academic high achiever bedazzled them Penangites as is the usual Gelekan and MCA tactic to field such fakes as leaders.

    A measure of Penagites infamous foolishness is indicated. A stigma to atone for and to vow, “never again!”

    I think they have got and none too early.

  146. Menyalak-er says:

    Yes, wits0, penang guy and friends.
    Although there was much ‘argument’ and ‘apologetics’ in this blog,
    there is much to be done to help my Buddhist brothers to become socio-cultural-political-ly engaged in the genesis of a nation.
    Unlike the monotheistic religions, who give weekly ‘sermons’ on ethics and morals, the ‘Karmic’ religious authorities tend to be too self-reflective and try to stay within rituals and traditions that only change in outward form.
    Charity always begins at home…etc. Not many have ‘morphed’ beyond that, thus the perceived ‘passitivity’, ‘negation’ and ‘respect of worldly authorities’ (all and sundry).
    It is not that they are not socially active in terms of charity – it is that the manner of ‘charity’ has a different meaning altogether.
    The Christian Council of Churches (CCM), as noted by some, tend to be more engaged when it comes to fundamental liberties, democracy and human rights, not by design but by theological reflection. But they too have many detractors within their ranks.

  147. Gadfly says:

    Further response to Morning dew’s comments after addressing the methodological issues:

    ” Buddhism as taught and envisaged by Buddha was never meant to be a social or political movement. Buddha’s emphasis on solitary cultivation had in fact set apart from many religious teachings of his day. The whole goal of buddhism was spiritual liberation.”

    Buddhism was not, strictly speaking, a purely social or political movement. But, it suredly was a social-religio movement. It was a social force that aimed to transform the society morally with the setting up of a commune, guided by the social contract between the sangha and the lay people – the former gave spiritual guidance, the latter gave material support to the sangha.It is a symbiotic relationship. As political philosophy were rooted in moral philosophy, Buddha also made social-political statements against the dehumanising caste system. He did not turn away from social oppression.

    Buddha’s teachings could not be reduced to and narrowly framed as private liberation cultivated in solitude. The first noble truth is the noble truth of suffering. The suffering of Robinson Crusoe in an island is a solitary affair. More than one, it is social in nature. Suffering in Buddhist context means human suffering and it could not be compartmentalised solely to personal psychological suffering.

    Right livelihood, one of the limbs of the 8 fold path, refers to a central organising principle of how to lead one’s life which has political and economic implications. Human beings are social beings. They live in relationships. if you refuse to earn your living from a mass media corporation that sells nothing but lies, you are making a political statement. Right livelihood as part of the Dhamma practice relates to how we want our political and economic system to be.

    If liberation is a purely personal affair, why Buddha bothered about Right Livelihood which is social in nature? Spiritual liberation is not possible if it is not human liberation. And human liberation is onesided if it excludes suffering inflicted by institutionalised delusion and violence.

    The Indian ethos of private liberation during Buddha’s time from samsara, the endless round birth and death, need to be questioned. When spiritual liberation becomes the whole locus of Buddhism, it implies that any value that is deemed ‘non-spiritual’, like democracy and liberty etc,is unimportant, irrelevant, or inferior. Such dichotomous categorisation helps to subdue and not liberate the populace. This partly explains why Buddhism often aligns itself with the forces of repression and oppression. To be fair, Buddhism sometimes is coerced by the state power. But, Buddhism has more to be blamed for the decay of Buddha’s radical vision of human liberation.

  148. wits0 says:

    “..Buddhism sometimes is coerced by the state power..” – Gadfly

    True. Example of Burma:
    http://www.bpf.org/tsangha/tsm03report/Karma%20Book/minzin.html

  149. Navin says:

    Najis must be asking Lord Buddha to forgive him for what has happened to Altantuya,though he was not involved.
    According to Buddhism he may ask for forgiveness on behalf of the actual murderer whereby ALtantuya was blown off with C4.

    May Lord Buddha bless Najis

  150. Gadfly says:

    wits0, the link provides deep insight into a Buddhist society that is traumatised and terrorised by the Burmese military dictatorship.

    The concept of samsara has turned into an ideological instrument of oppression. It is no longer the objective oprational law of impermanence and non-self.

    The original core concept of Buddhism of impermanence is meant to reduce egocentrism by detaching oneself from attachment to permenant self-identities. However, it blurrs the line between the oppressor and the oppressed. The boundaries or space that are critical for the protection of human rights are obliterated by discourses of the identitilessness of micro time of moment to moment mental flux or the macro time of unknown eons of lifetime to lifetime of retributive karmic justice.

    The samsara discourse has not only a cultural dimension but a psychological one as well. It is a psychological coping mechanism to bear with the ‘unspeakable suffering’. it is learnt helplessness.

    As the antithesis of samsara is Nirvana, it can also be said that it mirrors an ideology of the Nirvanic discourse which provides an religious authoritarian framework.

    The profound insight of enligthenment with universal compassion is transformed into rutheless authoritarianism. The perpetrators of crimes against humanity has more to be blamed than the victims. It is the political and military hegemony rather than the cultural one that is the root cause of the problem. It is not so helpful to blame the victims.

  151. Rutvic patel says:

    Just love & peace.

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