YES! says the Home Ministry:

Secretary-general Tan Sri Abdul Aziz Mohd Yusof said as Hindraf was not a registered organisation, the ministry’s legal unit would look at the technicality of disbanding the group.

He said Hindraf had on many occasions created unrest within the community, citing the recent gate-crashing of the prime minister and cabinet’s Hari Raya open house as an example.

Abdul Aziz said Hindraf’s insolence could not be tolerated as it had angered many, especially Muslims who felt Hindraf had marred the spirit of the Hari Raya.

How else can HINDRAF members meet the PM and present him with roses and a teddy bear? [read: commotion with roses?]

Abdul Aziz also said the police were looking into who were behind the incident.

Speaking to the New Straits Times from Singapore, Abdul Aziz was also bemused at reports that Hindraf had lodged a police report against Home Minister Datuk Seri Syed Hamid Albar and Malay daily Utusan Malaysia, for allegedly hurting the feelings of Hindraf members in a news report.

He said if the report had been made under Hindraf’s name, it would be ridiculous as the group was not even a formal entity.

Prime Minister Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi had on Monday said he was irked by Hindraf’s attitude during the incident. (read more of the report here at NST).

What say you? Should HINDRAF be banned? How can you ban an entity that is not even registered? Is it not enough that the five HINDRAF leaders are in ISA?

The Malaysian government surely know how to make a mountain out of a molehill.

Anyway, a ban only means a hike in popularity for the HINDRAF cause. ISA detentions make people instant heroes.

Hey, you don’t need advertisements anymore!


140 responses »

  1. Thurai says:

    You said it, Susan! How do you ban something that does not exist? 🙂 And a very Good Morning to you!

  2. jana says:

    Hindraf is a peoples movement. This ban call by stupid moronic leaders have nothing else to focus on than stir hatred. My dear short sighted moronic leaders focus your shit brain on stabilising political and more importantly on the economy. Otherwise leave the scene and let others to make malaysia a better place to stay

  3. Kopi Anan says:

    Why are the Hindraf not lead by their “ulama” coming from the ranks of the Brahmins, Vedantists and Sages …?

    It is about time that the REAL “ulama” of the Hinduism stand up and speak for Hinduism.

    Malaysians must soon realized that in India, there is the Right Wing, Fanatic and Extremist Hindu movement with para-military groups.

    And they are wearing Brown Shirts and Skirts !

    In Sri Langka they took the Terrorists position.

    So open our eyes and see things in their proper perspective.

  4. Maverick says:

    Fairdinkum ,
    Hindraf are sons and sisters of this great land and I am very optimistic that their struggle for a better and uplifted society is all they are asking. The minority Indians have been far neglected by the so called champions of mic only to fill theirs and their friends pockets with whatever crumbs given to them by the ruling government. Sammy Value never listened to their grouses with his arrogance and stupidity remarks and boisterous character. When you are up against the wall what would you do ? The Malays I believe are never chastised by Indians only the corrupt fellas at the corridors of power we are after. God bless Malaysia and its citizens. HIDUP MALAYSIA

  5. pathmanck says:

    Mr kopi anan, please stop talking rubbish. India atleast has a great deal of respect for it’s democratic system.
    Hindraf was never about religion. It was iniatially formed to save temples and eventually turned into “a save the indians in malaysia crusade”. Hindraf doesn’t have a head to cut. The 5 who were arrested were not even the leaders. No one was. Hindraf cannot die because it’s an idea. Idea cannot be killed or banned.
    By making it illegal it’s only give more power to police and instill fear to the public. God save Malaysia.

  6. kittykat46 says:

    This regime has no concept of the right to peaceful dissent.
    Ban an organisation just for peacefully attending the PM’s Open House ?

    Pooof !….

    By the way, up to now, no proof has emerged on the alleged threat which Hindraf poses to national security, as stated by the regime. The leaders are still incarcerated held without trial.

  7. Anonymous says:

    Notice how a bogeyman was created in the press first and then followed by the call to ban ? This dirty strategy had been used so often that it has become stale. The bogeyman was the supposed hindraf disruption of the PM’s hari raya open house. But the truth of the matter was that the PM was presented with a rose and a card by a 5 year old. If this was a national security threat our botak is really insecure. Perhaps he sleeps under the bed.

    Once in awhile, seem to be more often in recent months, the nation needed comic relief and who better to provide it then our court jesters – paid by the rakyat’s money.

  8. belang says:

    banned hindraf

  9. CWI says:

    Pro-capitalist policies of National Front government worsen racial polarisation…HINDRAF campaign underlines need for socialist solution

  10. andreas says:

    To kopi Anan

    Hindraf is a people movement, we no need Hindu Ulamas to lead HINDRAF. We have to remember hindraf not fingthing for implementation of hindu laws in Malaysia but purely for the creation of a just Malaysia society regardless race and religion…

  11. truther says:

    UMNO muslims hate hindus becos the latter have idols. Islam Hadhari otoh loves hindus like semi value and ananda krishnan.

  12. shankar says:

    What a stupid country with stupid leaders. Why are people stupid? They don’t stand up to their rights. And Muslims need to stop being overly sensitive. Is Abdul Aziz speaking for you? Remember is a two-bit politician. and a third rate ” leader “.

  13. KNB says:

    I don’t see any reason why Hindraf should be banned.

    As long as they fight for their right in accordance with the law of the land (which, of course, doesn’t include ISA and other draconian laws) – then let them be.

    The problem with our government is they tend to fend off any voices of dissent rather than addressing it. I mean, it is convenient for them is it not?

    If Hindraf really aggressive as the mainstream media claimed, then Pak Lah would be dead by now. Just hide a gun inside the teddy bear or flower bouquet.

    Buy they DID NOT do that.

  14. truther says:

    Islam hadhari is ajaran sesat and should be banned and all its followers sent to kamunting.

  15. Where’s the spirit of Raya? Is the phrase “maaf zahir batin” just words? Whether hindraf has done something wrong or not is arguable.

    But IF they have done wrong, as being insisted by many muslims, then try being a true muslim (the kind that RPK writes about) and ‘maafkan’ them!
    Simple, isn’t it?

    The PM appeared really pathetic crying on TV that “only one in the whole group greeted me Selamat Hari Raya”. Boo hoo hoo…That was really childish and sad to see.

    Mr. PM, try and be the bigger man. ‘Maafkan’ them as your religion teaches.

  16. caravanserai says:

    Hindraf is a people’s movement
    Nothing to do with chasing race supremacy
    It is towards a fair and equitable distribution
    Of wealth, economy and education
    No discrimination in policies
    Amongst the people in the country

    It isn’t solely for a political cause
    Hindraf is towards fairness in implementing policies
    For the betterment of the people
    In this country

    Yet the ruling government
    Ignore its plight pretending nothing is serious
    In the lower income groups of the people
    Though it seems it is marshaled by a race
    It is for all marginalized groups

    A prime minister for all people
    Only word but action fails in his quest
    He just never understood what he said
    He thinks we are in preschools
    Tell a story the children enthrall

    It isn’t easy as he thought it would be
    Failure to listen and implement fair policies
    In no time the people want change
    Enough of the lopsided benefits

    Hindraf takes the lead
    Of the poor groups in the country
    It isn’t about race; it is about the marginalized groups
    The government must address its policies

    When we have half past 6 leaders in BN
    They don’t hear the peoples’ cries……
    They think the Rakat have no rights
    When the people voted them in
    They can do as they please

    The people are Hindraf
    As long as discrimination exits
    The government mustn’t ignore
    It is time to right the wrong
    A small step will heal the wound
    Not acting high and mighty every time
    To suit its own agenda and regime

  17. Ali Nasi Lemak says:

    All Hindus in Malaysia should be compensated for their plight. They should be the King, PM and most of the ministers in the cabinet. All Malays should be reduced to workers , servants and jagas to serve their Hindu masters. The Malays/Muslims must tabik everytime a Hindus pass by them!!!! Yaoooooo…Hidup Hindraf!!!!

  18. Sivalingam says:

    What have Hindraf done to ban them? The world will laugh at banning a non-movement! a non-violent movement!.
    At most they can get them is for causing some friction which the people of Malaysia seem to understand the reason behind them all.

  19. […] are not responsible for the content published. We encourage you to read the full article/post from the original source here. This entry was posted on Thursday, October 9th, 2008 and is filed under From Blogs. You can […]

  20. back2012 says:

    These (Hindraf at Raya) would have note taken place if AAB met them at Putrajaya much much earlier. All this is a political move to ‘make’ Hindraf appear at Raya Open House.

  21. Hassan says:

    Hindraf (Hindu Rights Action Force) is a people’s movement? I doubt it. When asked by a reporter on whether the are representing Hindus, one of the member answered that they are representing all Indian Malaysians even Christians.

    UMNO starts from this raced based struggle. Think wisely before one fights along their “fellow brother and sisters” when in actuality they are only fighting for a specific race and their selfish cause. (themselves).

    I do not support a ban on Hindraf but for their records, I do not support such selfish movements.

  22. tGk says:

    hmm……….hindraf only fight for the hindu, i can’t acceot its objective…..but the way BN ruling and oppress the hindraf and india comunity is more intolerent. And goverment should not banding them, because in praticing democratics, they re not wrong.

  23. SAJ says:

    Tan Sri Aziz is a civil servant who does not understand his role.
    He should NOT be making political statements!

    Unfortunately civil servants in Malaysia do not understand that their loyalty is to KING and COUNTRY and that they serve THE PEOPLE, not the BN/UMNO politicians!

    A civil servant worth his salt understands that the basic principle of neutrality does not allow him/her to become the mouthpiece of the Minister!

  24. peter says:

    I strongly am against the ISA being used for any purpose at all.
    I am an Indian but I am sorry to say that I disagree with Hindraf. When most of us malaysians are now fighting to do away with single race obsolete parties like UMNO, MCA and MIC and are more and more in support for parties like PKR and DAP which are for “Malaysia for Malaysians” ideology, we have a Hindraf that is soley fighting for Hindus…….dont deny it cause for name says it so..

    Based on this, I strongly believe that hindraf should disband and get behind Pakatan Rakyat to fight your cause as a Malaysian and not an Indian or as hindus
    Why makes things more difficult for our Opposition and give easy bullets for the clowns running the country….

    PR needs us Malaysians to be solidly behind them as Malaysians and not Malays, or Chinese or Indians …
    I sincerely urge Hindraf…pls disband and use your resoursces to support PR visions…

    We are Malaysians…….
    and I love this country……..lets not create more difficulties for our ownselves…

  25. sitha says:

    why ban hindraf? banning them means banning every single unit/movement/body or person from asking for their rights.
    Can we punish a school kid who is asking for equal attention from the class teacher? think about it.

    Why are we getting very ‘tensed’ when we hear – oh Hindraf is only for Hindu..blah..blah..blah..
    Yes, maybe they started for Hindus but don’t forget they are fighting for Indians who are the citizens of this country and therefore, they are also fighting for you and me…Malay or Chinese…all actually, if we can think that Malaysians are Malaysians rather than breaking us up into Indian, Chinese and Malay.
    Hindraf represents a movement of very highly motivated and determined people fighting for people..they have the capacity of fighting for all…

  26. matt says:

    tan sri aziz just signed his early retirement papers.

  27. rajan says:

    Hi Susan,
    HINDRAF is not physical its more so mental ,is lives in all indians, its an energy that knows no body. Its a force that drives simple indifferent indians to seek justice for all the discrimination which was showered generously by the BN govt on the indians all these while over a few hundred years.
    MIC ,IPF and something else headed by Nalla karupan{good black boy} has and had only been a parasite living on by claiming to “HELP” indians, F^^K them. With the RISE of HINDRAF, Common folks have lost the fear of the suppressive govt.
    OR BN WILL find its END come the next election.
    Our present set of so called Ministers are more of parrots and balls polishers who value material gain over the progress of malaysia.
    Give no F^^K to these imbeciles.
    Have a good day and KEEP your POSTINGS COMING.
    Thank you

  28. ken says:

    How do you ban something that does not exist.

    How do you gate crash an open house.

  29. peter says:

    Dear sitha,

    Then in this case….lets not blame when the Malays want to fight for their rights also………there will be never be an end as we can never please all the races and religions all at one time…

    sorry…but are they really fighting for you and me…..and for the ahmad who is a farmer in Kelantan that has lost all his future because of the floods …….

    Get behind PR or any other NGO that is fighting on a neutal platform..

    Anyway…unlike DAPs leaders like Guan Eng and Kit Siang and Karpal…and PR leaders like Anwar and others..who are in Malaysia fightning and willing to face the dreaded and cursed ISA and risk losing all that they have fought for ….where is Hindraf chairperson..??

    No offence….but lets get pratical and not emotional in our fights for democracy and equality….

  30. arigengo says:

    deyyy machaa!!!

    korang kaum india esp (HINDRAF) nih tak kenang budi ke?
    mmg patut hindraf nih kena banned…
    sbb korang pejuangkan nasib yg sememang takde kepentingan negara…
    apahal plak korang nk mintak gantirugi duit berbillion2?
    bukannye kaum melayu yg bwk korang dtg ke tanah melayu, british yg bwk korang masuk ke tanah melayu jadik hamba abdi keje kat estate, so korang pegila mengamuk kat british..
    lagi satu cara korang nih salah, melampau sgt..
    sepatutnye korang berterima kasih pada kerajaan m’sia yg semamangnye tak berbelah bagi memberi bantuan pada semua kaum di m’sia…kalu korang bising sgt..berambus la korang balik ke india atau sri lanka..
    m’sia sebuah negara yg aman dan korang patutnye bersyukur hidup dlm negara yg aman makmur dlm berbilang kaum..jgn lah disebabkan dgn cara korang yg melampau dan tidak menghormati kaum yg lain nnti tercetus pula perbalahan kaum..respect la macha!!

  31. Azmin says:

    in short, as per my understanding; they would ban anything as long as their narrow mind couldn’t accept and think otherwise. We the malaysians have no choice but live with this kind of situation until the day it matures, another 2 decades or more.

  32. two-face says:


    Maybe we should gatecrash the Thaipusam celebration next year. We’ll wear the same coloured clothes and sing lagu raya by Saloma and make some noise, baby. And don’t forget the roses!

    On the road, let’s hog it and sound our horn as long and as loud as possible.

    The reason….. yes madam, it’s democracy.

    Any takers?

    And Shita, why ban Hindraf you asked? I equate them with the Tamil Tigers. Fighting for their rights and yes next year Hari Raya open house, is it not impossible that somebody will blow themselves up in front of our prime minister? Rajiv…remember?

  33. natt says:

    hello Hassan,
    Get your facts right before comment on others!!
    Its true that Hindraf also fights for te Christian Indians.
    Hindraf fights for the Hindu temples. That all for Hindus. All other demands are for Malaysian Indians. For example, when government agreed to allocate more sivil works for Indians, it goes to all Indians. All Indians means Hindus and Christian and even those Indian Muslims who fall into Indian race.
    Even Punjabis and Siks are getting more opportunities because they also fall into Indian race and getting oppotunities that allocated for Indians. So, all these people are sharing the Indians’ allocation!!
    And Indians’ allocation is one of the issue that Hindraf is fighting for!!
    Hassan, I know you getting so much from government and surely nothing will be enough for you! The more they feed you the more you will ask.
    We dont need that much. Give us our basic allocation!

  34. lulu says:

    Joke of the day….if u wanna banned hindraf then u need to throw all Malaysian who supports justice to Kemunting ….

  35. matt says:

    natt get your facts right your are like these umno goons, you mean to say you must be a hindu first and then indian.

  36. Uncle says:

    Hindraf had gone overboard in the first place by inciting hatred against the malay. Then they twisted it to UMNO and so on. What they did by condemning Malaysia to the whole world was uncalled for. Remember the word ‘genocide’, ethnic cleansing etc. Major countries in the world have got their ambassadors in this country and they knew its all lies.

    Let’s forgive and forget all that, its history. What we need to do now is to get the hindraf 5 out of Kamunting. The fact is, you cannot get them out by ‘instructing’ and ‘demanding’ the governmment to do so. Remember what Lim Kit Siang did to get Lim Guan Eng out of ISA, he personally pleaded to the PM then. The same goes for other political detainees. I think Samy Velu is doing that and he is on track but Hindraf’s action during the minister’s open house is surely not helping. As a malay person myself, I do not think the PM, deputy PM wants to keep the Hindraf 5 any longer and I am sure its a matter of time… for them to get the right timing….for political mileage of cause.

  37. natt says:

    Mr Two-face,
    Indians are not extremist like certain groups. These certain groups are extremists. Wherever they go, they want their religon to be the 1st religon in that country and kill all other people..
    look at those in Filipines, Siam, Pakistan and Middle east. Who kills who?Indians or Tamil’s are not these type. Even Tigers in Sri Lanka are fighting for thir own land, not for religon. They never go to other country and bomb people there like some s-h-i-t from Malaysia did!
    Well, you dont have rights to make assumption through your racist mind.
    How many people does Hindraf killed so far?? Did they injured any sivilian? Anyway, you are telling that they might blow up PM? Please la friend. They dont have bomb.
    May be you should ask UITM (bombers) oops…professors to provide some of it to Hindraf.

  38. natt says:

    U got it wrong. Indians can be from any religon.
    But Hindraf not only fights for Hindus but for Indians.
    So, when Indians benefit from it, Indians from all the religon gets it. thats all.

  39. Ali Nasi Lemak says:

    Why ban Hindraf? Malays should leave this land and give it to these Hindus!

  40. Hassan says:

    To Natt,

    Just a smidgen of ambiguity invites your critics. I mean, yeah you are right, if Hindraf is only fighting for the rights of all Indians, then what Mahathir Mohamad said was right about them -racist!

  41. Ganesan says:

    Where is the Hindraf chair person was your question. I am sure you know that his presence in Malaysia would be determined by the home minister or pm and will be incarcerated in Kumunting detention center. Do you wish to see him put under detention. Do you know that Ayotullah Khomeni was in France in self exile in France for 22 years fighting to free Iran from Monarchy. Similarly he is fighting to free the Indian subserviant mentality of yours. Hindraf has brought dignity among Indians and revitalising what our great leader Mahatma Ghandi has provoked to fight for justice anywhere where injustice is practised and prevails without violence.

  42. two-face says:


    What a spin!


    We exchange lah, Malays get India and Hindus (quoting you) get Malaysia.

  43. sitha says:

    dear peter,

    why should I blame anyone who seeks for their rights??? Like I said, everyone has the right to ask for their rights.

    You see, everything has a beginning and ending. And for something to begin, it needs a cause/reason.

    Just like Mahatma Gandhi:
    “In South Africa, Gandhi faced discrimination directed at Indians. Initially, he was thrown off a train at Pietermaritzburg, after refusing to move from the first class to a third class coach while holding a valid first class ticket. Traveling further on by stagecoach, he was beaten by a driver for refusing to travel on the foot board to make room for a European passenger. He suffered other hardships on the journey as well, including being barred from many hotels. In another of many similar events, the magistrate of a Durban court ordered him to remove his turban, which Gandhi refused. These incidents have been acknowledged as a turning point in his life, serving as an awakening to contemporary social injustice and helping to explain his subsequent social activism.”

    Sorry for the long story. Now, can we say that Mahatma is only known in India? The entire world is preaching his beautiful quotations.

    Well what I am trying to say is…Hindraf has just shown its beginning..wait till the ending because as I said again…it has the capacity and the heart to fight for all.

  44. Menyalak-er says:

    The Sec-gen of the Home Min., is airing what most bumno flers are thinking, and although the civil servants are “supposed” to be apolitical, this flur has been BTN-ed thoroughly. That’s reality.
    It is impossible, as Susan and others say, to ban an idea or mass grassroots movement like Hindraf, but it doesn’t mean they won’t try to do it.
    What i would humbly suggest is that the Hindraf supporters be more polite and respectful (even if they don’t necessarily feel that way) to the institutional office of the PM.
    For instance, there is no need to get ‘aggressive’ by raising voices during a Hari Raya do, etc.
    As a pressure group, they would do well to emulate Mahatma Gandhi’s ways… A change in ‘presentation’ would be most welcome.

  45. Ahjajal says:

    The right thing to do is to ban UMNO MCA AND MIC they are
    the problem to unity in Malaysia. They are racist.

  46. two-face says:


    You are as good a spinner as Natt. Why don’t you copy and paste Hindraf’s memorandum to QE2 and Gordon Brown here. We’ll see then what theyclaimed and asked for.

    Like I said earlier, I equate Hindraf with the Tamil Tigers. I am afraid one of their members will blow-up himself/herself infront of our leaders.

    But hey, that will justify the ISA then. By the way, the suggestion to sing the Saloma’s raya song during the Thaipusam celebration still stands. Wanna join me Sitha?

  47. natt says:

    Ok Hassan,
    Utusan will fight for Malays and Muslims. UMN-O will do the same.
    They are champions of the nation and race.
    And, Indians should not voice out anything! The moment they ask, they are racist!
    You guys will only fight for your own things!
    The moment other fight for their race, they are racist!!
    -Good Point. You are really qualified to join one of the giant party in this country.

  48. jean says:

    Why ban a group of people who had been a victim of genocide? Kesian la…

    They went to give roses only kan. Afterall, roses and hari raya comes hand in hand all these while.

    to, its not exactly accurate that “kemaafan” should be given on hariraya. You actually go to an open house to offer your apology for whatever and then you can expect forgiveness for whatever. Note that “meminta maaf “comes before “memberi maaf.” Its applicable to all races, hari raya or not, I think.

    Did I heard anyone apologizing on that genocide thing?

  49. peter says:

    Pls dont compare to Mahatma Gandhi…the man fasted, went bald, hunger strike, jalied and eventually brutally murdered by fanatics…but ALL IN INDIA, his beloved mother country……not in South Africa or the UK..

    so..we all our party leaders think alike , it is bout time that Anwar and Lim KS and even Nik Aziz and other leaders should also head out to the UK and fight from there…..

    Why did Nelson Mandela..continue his struggle in SA, should have sought refuge in France

    But I can agree and equate your chairperson with the Ayotullah..

    Pity..Raja Petra knew ahead that the ISA was going to be used against him…he should have followed Hindraf chairperson and fled or exile in the UK……….

    Pity Teresa Kok…she should pack up now and head down under maybe for a holiday…..fight from Australia..

    Now, I know the real heart and depth of what Hindraf is..
    Some indians never change..maybe too much of Tiger influence ot ‘Rajini Kanth’….

    If hindraf is really for Malaysian and/or for all Indians… Why the Hindu Rights in the name..???????
    Why not Malaysian Rights….or Indian Rights…….

    Good..Keep on fighting for Hindus and Muslims and Christians and Indians and Malays and Chinese seperately…and watch Malaysia fall and crumble…that means you and me too..together with Ahmad and Ah Chong and Ganeson and Peter…..while chairperson is in “exile” in UK….

  50. sitha says:

    Dear two-face

    well, well, well, life is all about cut and paste of good things…called experiance…

    perhaps I will join u first to make your two face as one face since I am afraid that you might pull out last minute since you are two -face.

    come on man….do u really believe the story as published in some local newspapers? Hindraf created a havoc in PM’s open house?

    if you bad. Looks like we have more work to do in cleansing the mind set of Malaysian.

  51. two-face says:


    Who says that fighting one ‘s interest is wrong. You can fight for the frog if you think it can turn into a prince! But the thing that’s wrong is ‘kurang ajar’. Nobody for that matter… Indian, Chinese, Malay, Jews or Orang Asal can tolerate ‘kurang ajar and biadap’. You don’t come as invited guests and insult the host. More so, when it is a religious occassion!

    One question for you Natt… where were you or the Indians when the Al-Arqam members and JIM members were detained under the ISA? Any sound from Karpal, Kit Siang or Theresa or even Anwar Ibrahim?

    For your info (I’m sure you’re aware though) majority of the detainees in Kamunting are Malays? Should be ‘kurang ajar and biadap’ to get them released?

  52. natt says:

    ha ha ha..
    One is your face…the other one is Mr.MAD-Cow’s face?
    I can see it in you!

  53. OF COURSE! pertubuhan haram is pertubuhan haram. just like gov ban pkm and al-alqam. no organization should encourage its member to whack polis just like wat utusan reported…..

  54. two-face says:

    Natt & Sitha

    Why don’t you surf the HINDRAF TAMIL TIGERS website. The memorandum talking about genocide and ethnic cleansing are there.

    and Natt, it’s that all you can say?

  55. “Hindraf is a people movement, we no need Hindu Ulamas to lead HINDRAF. We have to remember hindraf not fingthing for implementation of hindu laws in Malaysia but purely for the creation of a just Malaysia society”

    to put same quote, pkm is a people movement, we no need cina or chin peng to lead pkm. We have to remember pkm not “only” fingthing for implementation of komunis laws in Malaysia but purely for the creation of a just Malaysia society “with standing against capitalist greed”….. using VIOLENCE.

    now you know why pkm kena banned ….

  56. as long there’s samy vellu there, there is absolutely no ethic cleansing, else samy’s rice bowl will be broken. you think that old man crazy arrr letting that happen …..

  57. two-face says:


    Be careful about your “cow” statement, we don’t want the Hindraf Tamil Tigers to go to the street and protest, do you?

  58. peter says:

    Dear Sitha,
    I appreciate your logic but I as a Malaysian Indian, I feel that our best options in to pool our resources together and fight for a common goal… A goal for all Malaysians….

    To get there…first we have to rid ourselves with the figthing for one race or religion…even the names of your outfits and parties must not be race/religion linked…Neutral…like DAP or PKR…This is the first step..

    No point going to claim and shout at the government and the whole world that we are being marginilised due to race linked policies in this country and at the same time, fight the cause by using a another race/religion linked front….what difference is there…

    I hope you get my point…

    look right here now in this blog….see the comments for and against Hindraf…..
    but if it was a neutral front..I am sure that all the comment will be for support towards the front.

    I am not a hindraf supporter but I support all reforms and equal oppurtunities in all areas regardless of race and religion. That is why my hope only lies with PR now….

    I dont want another “hindraf” type of front or party to rise again…….and that will just erase all hopes that we have in turning around this country…

  59. natt says:

    Dear Two-face,
    You were so annoyed that nobody supported Al-Arquam and JIM?
    What were they fighting for?
    For food?
    For university allocation?
    For their ppl to be developed?
    For the equality among race?
    or against descrimination?
    What were they fighting for???

    If wanna support someone, dont blindly support la!

  60. Hassan says:

    Dear Two face buddy ;),

    You wrote :
    One question for you Natt… where were you or the Indians when the Al-Arqam members and JIM members were detained under the ISA? Any sound from Karpal, Kit Siang or Theresa or even Anwar Ibrahim?

    Absolutely. I think we are wasting time here on a racist group and we shall see if after the Hindraf 5 and/or all Indians are
    released from ISA, will Hindraf still call for ISA to be abolish?

  61. two-face says:


    It is a question of inconsistency.

    The issue is ISA. If you don’t support ISA, you would support a communist, a serial killer that kill a mother and then eat her child with mushroom, Nurin Jazlin’s killer and Sharlin’s kidnapper if they are held under ISA.

    I don’t subscibed to Al-Arqam or JIM’s ideology and I believed these organisation would have created chaos. Similarly like Hidraf Tamil Tigers will create chaos in the country. Peter, a self-confessed Indian will be sucked in the image of ‘kurang-ajar’ by the Malays. Do you that’s good, Nat?

    To answer your question, I am not annoyed nobody supported Al-Arqam and JIM but I am annoyed at the sheer hypocracy of the supporter of Hindraf Tamil Tigers.

  62. matt says:

    Till we have a race called MALAYSIAN we can comment till the cows come home, nothing will change.Haris Ibrahim is right when he says a MALAYSIA FOR MALAYSIANS.

  63. sitha says:

    dear peter,

    yes, I clearly undertsand your point.

    Just see how long it took for DAP, PAS and PKR to combine as PR and I am a supporter of PR as I am to Hindraf.

    Don’t you think it would be even better if there is no DAP, PAS and PKR separately? Just Pakatan Rakyat? Don’t you agree?

    But would you disagree with me that the parties ( DAP, PKR and PAS) came up becuase of their own separate fights initially?

    Hindraf is just baby….but they are running fast.

    50 years darling for PR, give Hindraf a chance, soon or perhaps our chilldren will accept them as how you accept PR now.

    Just the beginning…they are there.

    It just that sometimes, we need a name..u see


  64. justmy2SEN says:

    Two face wrote :

    One question for you Natt… where were you or the Indians when the Al-Arqam members and JIM members were detained under the ISA? Any sound from Karpal, Kit Siang or Theresa or even Anwar Ibrahim?

    HAHAHA..u hit the nail where it should be….these people are not advocating justice etc but advocating for their own kind….they wrote a letter which are dangerous (one can imagine ethnic cleansing as claimed in the letter can be an excuse for US to intervene in Malaysia. shows how HINDRAF is out to break Malaysia in pieces just like Iraq)..AND YOU WANT TO CALL THESE PEOPLE HEROES?..WHAT A JOKE!!!!

    Personally, i view them as kurang ajar…kurang asam gangster who crash majlis hari raya….and make kecoh….i bet people at the majlis raya are really pissed but they can’t do anything as HINDRAF people are aggrasive and sewel who would stop at nothing to get what they want..without regard and respect to other people….

    i suggets Malays unite to buat kacau at religion majlis of others to see how they like it….we crash at sunday mass in churches, deepavali, thaipusam in batu caves etc etc…i really want to see reaction esp chinese who bela thiese HINDRAF crashing Majlis Raya on how they like it if depa (the chinese) yang kena…jgn pandai cakap demokrasi jeeee….

    and natt…if you can’t give a valid argument…don’t bother…

  65. ‘Yes’ and ‘No’, if all people say so
    ‘Yes’, if it does more harm than good
    ‘No’, if it serves any purpose that’s good
    Maybe we must give it a chance & let it be so

    (C) Samuel Goh Kim Eng – 091008
    Thur. 9th Oct. 2008.

  66. goldenscreen says:

    Perhaps our dear Malaysian government would like to lock up all the Indians in the country (all 1 million of them), because that is the only conceivable way to disband HINDRAF. UMNO contractors must be salivating at the prospect of building the jail cells and supplying the jails with materials and food.

  67. two-face says:


    To answer your question, I am not annoyed that nobody supported Al-Arqam or JIM. I am annoyed though of the hypocracy of this Hindraf Tamil Tigers supporters.

    The issue here is consistency. If you don’t support ISA, you would have to support the release of all detainees, regardless of their political leaning and “crimes”. I am sure the Sabahan supports the detention of the fraudsters in Jabatan Pendaftaran Negara.

    Hindraf Tamil Tigers supporters claimed the majority of Indians support them and if that is true what do you think the perception of the Indians by the Malays. Sensible Indian like Peter will be sucked in the image of this Hindraf Tamil Tigers.

    For a community that form 7% of the population but have ministers, deputy ministers, parliamentary secretaries, business tycoons, own schools, can practice freely their religious duty……. and this Hindraf Tamil Tiger claim genocide and ethnic cleansing.

    No country in the world that include Sri Lanka, that have more Indians can provide better. But what do they do? Insult the host, which happened to be Malay and Muslim in the most significant religious day.

    I am tired.

  68. ttc says:

    Susan, howdee 🙂

    Is this a trick question?

    Or a typo of “Should UMNO be banned?”



  69. goldenscreen says:

    To justmy2SEN,

    Oh yes your gang definately has already gate crashed so many functions, I don’t even have enough time to remember them all. Like the demo outside Bar Council calling people Babi, Balik Cina, Balik India. That is what I call KURANG AJAR, your mother never teach you manners is it?

    What about surrounding the church in Perak because supposedly Malays are going to be baptised (which turns out to be false). Then throw bricks and firecrackers into the church? That is also what I call KURANG AJAR and BODOH because so easily to be fooled by rumors.

    But when non-Malay BUMIPUTRA want to hand a memorandum to the Agong, the police straight away block them. Double standards for different classes of BUMIPUTRA, how hypocritical can one get?

    The irony is Malay leaders are working hand in glove with Chinese gangsters and Chinese tycoons to intimidate, rob and disenfranchise BUMIPUTRAS Orang Asal, Kadazan, Kelabit, Murut, Iban, Penan who lived in Malaysia way before 1400. I know because I have friends working for Chinese Gangster Bosses..what you didn’t know about the fate of your fellow BUMIPUTRA?

  70. truther says:

    Of course UMNO should be banned together with MCA and MIC.

  71. truther says:

    justmy2SEN `s proposal advocating more May 13s and Taman Medans and Kerling incidents should inspire more umno members.

  72. natt says:

    Hello justmy2SEN,
    Looks like u also one sesat case!! its an open house. People gathered and gave a greeting card.
    Did they went to Mosque? Did they disturb your prayer? did they say any anti islam slogan? No!!!
    Then why are u connecting it with disruption of Malay or Muslim?
    You are just taking like that botak Albar.

    And you are talking of disrupting Church and Temple??
    Please la…Nobody distrubted your religious place. Nobody protested or made noise infront of mosque! We have great respect towards your race and your religon. So, that will never happen!

    Not bad, you also twisting facts like our politicians!

  73. wandererAUS says:

    Abdul Aziz has just joined the national clowns’ club…making senseless and comical statements for self glorifying. Of late, there were many events unfolded in the country, like racist trouble maker Ahmad Ismail,a VIP instigator, a national newspaper telling untruth stories and worst of all, slimy worms that creeped out in the darkness of the nights, to harass a National Lawmaker with molotov cocktails, where was this man Aziz? What actions will he take against these undesirables of the land?
    Sadly, this is a land of double standards, only in favor of the privileged.

  74. data says:

    What MggPillai wrote in 2004, is still followed by 2 sens:

    Dato’ Seri Najib kicked the ball first to insist to insist none should openly debate if Muslims could slander the followers of other religions, and promised to investigate the site, “Malaysia Today”.

    The Federal Territory mufti, Dato’ Mohamed Yusof Hussain, invites RPK over to show how he deviates from Islam and he could help him return to the fold. But instead of inviting him, he used the mid-morning Malay tabloid, Harian Metro, in the New Straits Times stable to reply. But his intent was incendiary, not resolution. But RPK has now come with a serious of questions on his website that he wants Dr Yusof to answer in Harian Metro before he would meet him.

    But what RPK complains of is true. Non-Malays living in the vicinity of mosques in Kuala Lumpur hear this call to arms against the non-Muslims through high-pitches megaphones often enough to be dismissed as untrue.

  75. data says:

    Followers of Islam Hadhari ikut ajaran sesat. Now at their meetings they throw acid at each other also.

  76. says:

    Ban it ASAP or else rakyat continue to suffer..

  77. wandererAUS says:

    sloone, it appears of late you have ‘ISA-ed’ some of my comments. Perhaps, you could give us a guide line, how far is the acceptable criitisms we can make.
    Matter of fact, I have toned down and used more polite language.

  78. sitha says:


    nicely put.

    If two face and 2 sens are still insisting of going and kacauing ..i think they can go to samy’s open house this month.
    And don’t forget the roses!!!

    Emm..maybe I’ll join. After all its open HOUSE!!!

    Selamat hari raya and happy deepavali.

  79. Cina Baba says:

    Is HINDRAF a morally upright organisation, was it not rude to rush to someone’s function and created commotion? What if in this coming Deepavali Open Day, UMNO gangsterz entered and created the same in Samy’s function? or will HINDRAF repeat the same at Batu Cave?

    see and think..susan dear.

  80. Cina Baba says:

    Susan ISAed my posting…a poem by a Malay poet. Susanis bias also.

  81. rambai sari says:


    jeff oi kena brainwash oleh politik Islam malaysia? Tuduh PAS ke?

    rujuk post Jeff Ooi rude culture shock in Abu Dhabi

    aku pun ada posting nak beri amaran pada jeff ooi, jangan seronok sangat minum arak dan makan khinzir. sampai terlepas cakap.

  82. natt says:

    Yes Cina Baba,
    If Pak Lah can come to Bt Caves, surely Hindraf will be there to give him their requests!
    And you want UMNO to create commotion in Sammy value’s open house?? Thats a very good idea! Please do it!PLz plz..

  83. ernest cheah says:


    before the question is asked, we must find out why and how this hindraf come about. The answer is in this sentense.

  84. James Chen says:

    Dear Muslim and Malay brothers and sisters (excluding UMNO),

    Hey, I am a Chinese Christian. At first I support the Hindraf when they took to the streets along with other races (though not many) on marginalization of the Indians. When the Pandora Box of their (hindraf) sleuthed inches deeper (overview their racist actions solely for the Indians ONLY), I distanced myself from these racists.

    During their ordeal ,i have learned Tony Pua of DAP solicited donations for the family members of the jailed leaders. LKS spoke incessantly against the jailors. Anwar Ibrahim recently called Muslims outright for jailing Hindus.

    But, do not be fooled by Hindraf’s struggle. They are only for the Indians. When even a Chinese racist blogger made racist remarks, the Hindraf showed zero mercy with a police report lodged and asked the police to act against the blogger even after the said blogger apologized and concurrently said “he would forgive the blogger”.

    I agree with someone who said the protest letter sent to Queen Elizabeth were written with ultra-supremacist articulation, words like “Islamic Militants”, “ethnic-cleansing” which were totally falsehood and blatant lies.

    Again, I am a Chinese and a Christian and please don’t burn any churches as I will ask my fellow friends to distance from Hindraf’s supremacist and false struggle.

    Conclusion : Hindraf’s struggle are only for the Indians. Don’t be connived into supporting such associations.

  85. peter says:

    James chen,

    I am an Indian and I need to clarify something.
    Hindraf is not for Indians…it is for Hindus only………

    And I all agreeable to disband Hindraf soon before it creates more trouble for us, the simple law abiding Malaysians seeking for a more just and equal government to treat all Malaysians with equality.

    To our dear Hindraf members…pls disband soon and you will find that all your “heros” will be released soon from the ISA and your “great chairperson” who is in exile in UK and return home…… that is if he is still interested to return.

  86. natt says:

    Hi James Chen,
    Hindraf fight for Indians. Thats the basic. Im not really qualified to tell if they do fight for others.
    When 30 thousand Indians we beaten up for carrying street protest, you call them racist just because they didnt fight for you as well?
    Well my dear friend, why you expect 6% Indians to fight for all of us? Why dont you ask your brothers and sisters to join us and protest? After all you guys are few times superior than Indians in number? So, who is racist and who is selfish??
    When your tv is stolen, you can only complain that your tv is stolen. You cannot go out and make fuss that your neighbour’s tv got lost!!
    Unless if your neighbour want to come together with you to make the complain, then you guys can join and tell “Our tv has been stolen!!” So, you get it? You cant comfortably sit inside your house and expect others or other race to fight for you.

    You can’t represent a race without the representatives from that particular race.

    Anyway, I salute many Chinese personnels and Politicians who raised their voice and supported Hindrafs struggle and against their mistreatment by police.

    And Mr. Chen,
    This is about the blogger.
    How can you curse the whole race when one or two from that race did something to you? And she did even write it in in the blog. She dared anyone to sue her! Can we call this kurang ajar? or too much?? And you think this kind of people are sincere? Even the way she ask for apology was not sincere.

  87. natt says:

    Hi Peter,
    Im not sure from where you get all these ideas on Hindraf.
    Hindraf fights for temples. Yes. Other than that? Most of their other demands are for Malaysian Indians. Tell me at which section they demanded specifically Malaysian Hindu Indians?

    Well,you can be anything you want! But when the allocation or opportunity for Indians increased, you dont have to be a Hindu to grab and gain it. As long as you are Indian, you can apply and gain those additional opportunity. Hopefully your kids get more opportunities through Hindraf.

  88. “When even a Chinese racist blogger made racist remarks, the Hindraf showed zero mercy with a police report lodged and asked the police to act against the blogger even after the said blogger apologized and concurrently said “he would forgive the blogger”.”

    such ignorant, calling names cina pendatang or indian keling cannot compare with statement labelling indian stealer, lazy, idiot and drunkard bastard, just because someone from the ethnic stole her HP (and she din blame for her own stupidity). not only she have the guts to write such thing (there’s even much more, you know), she even “challenged” the community to sue her, and made “insincere” apologies one after another. the hindraf chief forgave her at the end is toothless tiger just like aab, if i’m the chief, i will persecute her sampai ke sungai buloh – she wants to claim innocent let her claim in front of the judge for being seditious ! if only she’s in sgpura, she sure ends up in cell oledi….

    that’s why hindraf should kena banned – for being “unwanted” violent like whacking the cops, and lame for standing up against stereotyped.

  89. rajraman says:

    Nothiing to say,

    others already commented for me.

    rajraman.just wondering where the other regular guys?

  90. anonymous says:

    I dont care ….Juz give me the money…..Everybody have to make money 4 living. If I were your boss, I will fire you for wasting office facilities on personal matter. Concentrate on your work lah……There are killer waves out there coming closer…..3F….

  91. Obi Wan Kentucky says:

    The PM had the galls to say that HINDRAF’s gate crashing was improper?

    So, detaining people without trial in ISA was ‘proper’ eh? The ISA goons ‘gatecrashed’ into these poor people’s lives and detained them, so what’s the big deal about making a little noise at a raya party la, Pak Lah? Its not that you’re the one who forked out money for the raya function, its tax payers money la wei…all RM400k of it. So as a taxpayer, I give my consent la. Very sure the other taxpayers will do so.

    Pak Lah also said gatecrashing was not in the spirit of Hari Raya? You know what Hari Raya spirit means a Pak Lah? Oh, maybe it means enjoying your lemang, ketupat, satay, rendang while these poor people in ISA detention remain separated from their loved one and enjoying dog food, eh?

    Pak Lah, Pak Lah…why la got people like you.

  92. jsss says:

    Hi Rajraman,

    Me too got nothing to say as the others already commented for me too lah.

    Anyway, I am here to say hi to you since you wondering where are the regular guys gone.

    Keep post your comments guys.

  93. wapot says:

    Halo Rajraman, I am back , you happy now?

  94. jana says:

    If Hindraf is a racist organisation then what do we call the ultra racist UMNO, MCA and MIC who has taken the entire Malaysians for ride for the last 50 years. Where were you louds speaking anti Hindraf heroes. Pakatan is doing away with racist policies but be reminded it cannot and will not be able to dismantle it overnight. Until Pakatan comes to power at the Federal level, Hindraf will be the voice of the marginalised Indians. We Indians have been patient all along but how long do you expect us to be ill treated. Our very own so call champions of Indians has betrayed us. The drastic failure of MIC and the UMNO led govt has given birth to Hindraf. So is it wrong for us to take up our cause for the sake of our future. We were driven to the wall hence we have no alternative but to seek people’s power to change the entire polical scenerio in due course along with Pakatan

  95. Disgruntled says:

    Ban Hindraf , go ask the British Government to pay them the money that they ask . Go ask the tiger tamils to help them out . Bunch of morons . Even the Indians have their caste system and the Tamils are the lowest caste in India .

  96. wits0 says:

    “The truth is, the Malaysian Government is the biggest source of ethnic and religious tension in Malaysia. It has an interest in constantly harping on about race, using imagined communal tensions as an excuse for its use of the ISA, to control the media and, above all, to head off threats to its own power. The race issue is manipulated not to protect Malaysians from each other but to protect the Government from opposition.” u/q


  97. rajan says:

    Guys Guys Guys n Gals,
    Cool it here ,please !
    I believe that the issue here is The hari raya OPEN house.Not Race,creed or colour.Did supporters of hindraf misbehave and cause pandemonium as claimed by interested groups.
    As in any invitation thats sent out, the dress code ,who could attend and how they should ass kiss is not mentioned.
    As claimed by hindraf, they had wrote to PM office of their intention to attend and to present pak lah with a teddy bear and a hand made hari raya card by a 6 year old. WHATS THE PROBLEM.No objection was raised.
    As in tactics of being seen as a” responsible ” and loyal person,some one “poked” the smouldering ashes to ignite a fire thats what we read and hear over TV 1,TV3 and TV2 NTV7 ,repeated over and over again to create anger towards hindraf by the masses who did not even notice the “noise”.
    If i recall correctly, AAB was told by his BODEK KAKI,
    “” you know or not Pak lah, out of so many of hindraf supporters, only one wished him SHRAF and the rest were calling out to release the hindraf 5 and abloish ISA.
    Now if someone else had to tell Pak lah as to what happened, then i wonder, what was pak lah doing at that point in time. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZz
    {something is wrong with my keyboard}
    So i believe that all this complaints about how hindraf supporters behaved was a plan hatched to discredit and demonise hindraf.
    THE SPIN DOCTORS WON, WE LOST, YET AGAIN,and again and again.
    If we notice ,after the tsunami of march 8, everything the felers talk about is ,Islam is being attacked,attacked ,No one in their right frame will belittle or “destroy” any religion.
    Islam is now being used unsparingly to divide the masses who found a common platform and to get back support they will never get back. I yearn for the 60s and early 70s where all the races were trusting of one another, Those days the politics were centred around issues not Drama minggu ini like now.
    Samy veloo is now trying to give the impression that he is trying to get the hindraf 5 out of ISA. FAT HOPES.
    Again ,its a tactic to get the indians away from hindraf. Sorry ! Its like you can never teach old dogs new tricks.
    Amin,amen, nameskaram.
    What will they think off next? ? ? ? ?
    I really do wish that any religion will not be made use of in politics. Its a dangerous mix very potent too.
    I hope BN politicians will not make use of religion to cause a divide among the masses. But ,sadly, its BNs political capital as they have nothing else as capital.

  98. two-face says:


    A good point there. Hindraf should fight on equality between the Hindus. No more caste system. Don’t talk about rights when they themselves do not recognise equal rights of lower caste namely, ‘the untouchables’.

  99. Aaron says:

    Dear James Chan,

    As previous commentator aroused a clever point before you. Don’t have to entertain some self-righteous, selfish groups anywhere.

    And about the blogger, I agree with you. I would have support them like the selfless raja Petra who only took on “Goliath”, but they even have the time to bully a singular unknown person even after she apologized.

    If Hindraf is calling for the release for the Hindraf 5 under ISA, will they call for the release of other ISA inmates. For a Hindraf top-echelon in his false-pretense (after lodging a police report even after the blogger has apologized) and at the same time say he would forgive her is like the BN Government who incarcerate the Hindraf 5 1st on grounds that they are terrorist (Tamil Tigers) and when this were unfounded they argued that the Hindraf are a threat to National Securities. Over the past months, Hindraf has really shown that they are no better than their aggressors they claimed – UMNO.

    Observe some commentators who wants the blogger to be charged under the Sedition Act is a trenchant of their true nature (IF they are from Hindraf) that they never respect the truth at all -to abolish the ISA and other archaic Act.

    ****Like someone mentioned here, cogitate wisely before you decide to fight for anyone whose real intentions are only falsehoods and BIG BIG LIE! The choice is yours. This does not apply to only Hindraf but other selfish political parties/persons/org/NGO.

  100. data says:

    PAS and UMNO should unite instead of talking rubbish treating each other as untouchables and be e.g. to others instead of preaching their holiness to hindus.

  101. data says:

    Hadi: Hindraf action a democratic right

    KUALA TERENGGANU: The Pas chief said the action by the the Hindu Rights Action Force (Hindraf) at the prime minister’s and cabinet’s Hari Raya open house on Wednesday was part and parcel of democracy.

    Datuk Seri Abdul Hadi Awang said it signalled a change in the democratic practices in the country that should be viewed positively.

    “I don’t think it was rude. That’s democracy. In the United States, people demonstrate in front of the White House. It’s not like they caused a commotion or started fighting,” he said after the party’s Hari Raya gathering at the Tarbiyyah headquarters yesterday.

  102. data says:

    UMNO, Badawi, Najib all ajaran sesat.

  103. data says:

    MCA MIC ikut ajaran sesat

  104. reshmann says:

    To arigengo,two face and the likes,

    Why you fellas are so apt at picking on hindraf only?There was also a group clad in T-shirts calling for the abolishment of ISA and free RPK? Were you fellas there in the open house and witnessed hindraf behaving unruly?Come on lar,those people who represented hindraf were comprised of the wives ,kids of those 5 who are languishing in prison under ISA without any evidence against them.There were also many old folks and women.Do you fellas think that these people can cause mayhem as claimed by our corrupt and racist politicians and spinned by the boneless MSM?Terrorists dont beg and plead for dialogues lar,they only know the langguage of carnage by bombing and killing innocent people as we can see in the middle east countries.
    If only our so called dame luck `PM for all’was willing to listen to them at putrajaya many2 months ago even before the Hindraf peaceful demonstration on the 27th nov 2007,why should they go to the open house to meet the PM?Hundreds of letters and memorandums were sent to the lame duck,but he ignored them.Since merdeka,at least 85% of Indians have been supporting BN,is this the way to show gratitude by the govt?Remember those orange clad peole are also tax contributors and many bumis are enjoying it under the pretext of the shameless NEP.They are just asking the govt for justice in terms of education,job prospects in the public sector,to improve the deplorable conditions of those estate workers whose jobs were deprived ,homes were taken away and made to be the new underclass in urban areas as squatters.Those estates were sold to rich chinese taukes to be developed and the money is being enjoyed by the top echelon of UMNOputras.So you fellas find this to be fair?

    If Hindraf’s noble action of giving the PM a raya card and a gift is construed as `kurang sopan’than what about the kulai MP Zulkifli,who gate crashed a legal forum on conversion in a gangster like manner?How about UMNO holding their AGM on Deepavalli day?How about KJ reprimanding the INdian newspaper vendors for not working ,as they wanted to celebrate Deepavali?How about KJ and his thugs who behaved in the most despicable manner in front of the US embassy during the visit of a top US lawmaker to the country?How about politicians like Ahmad Ismail and his ilks who behaved in the most uncultured manner by tearing Koh Tsu Koon’s photo and then calling the legitimate citizens of the country as `penumpang’?How about the demolition of hundreds of temples in the name of development?How about the outburst of the ITM students for a mere `proposal ‘of 10% intake for non-malay students?Why non-malay govt staff find it rather impossible to go up the hierarchy,even though they are so efficient?Well the list can go on and on.Ini semua bukan perbuatan `kurang ajar’ ker?

    Hindraf is not encroaching on majority rights lar.They are just fighting for the basic justice for humanity esp for the poor,marginalized and the desperate.If malays after 38 years of enjoying NEP,still feel they are weak and uncompetitive,what these fellas expect of those poor people who have been sidelined since 51 years to do?Hindraf is certainly not asking for a walking stick or crutches,but mere justice,which MIC failed because MIC had been made hamba kerajaan.So called indoctrination like Biro Tata negara,an institutionalised racism.

    Now the confusion about the term `ethnic cleansing’.Certainly I too dont agree with that term,but what I learned is,that the term was used to reflect the incident which took place in Kg.Medan and also the shoot to kill order of Indian gangsters plus the various death of Indian detainees in lock ups and prisons.Despite many request by the human right lawyers led by Uthaya Kumar to get a concrete report about the Kg Medan incident,the govt did not respond.Just to remind you fellas,in that incident many Indians were killed and many more were mutilated,many families lost their bread winners too and became part of the new under class society.

    So where were you so called right thinking Malaysians when those atrocities were being committed against another fellow malaysian?Where were you all when hundreds of very poor Indian students were denied places in the local universities and also scholarships?Why is that malaysian chinese or indians are proudly refered to as Malaysians whenever they make the country proud in the international arena,otherwise we become `penumpangs or pendatangs’?I had on many occasions reprimanded `mat sallehs’who spoke poorly of my country of birth,but why do our govt always `pilih kasih’and taking away that proud feeling of being a Malaysian or rather the patriotism?
    BTW Hindraf had cancelled their visit to the open house of the PM in Penang,because they found it pointless,as the PM did not respect their noble intentions to present him wth a raya card, a gift and a plea to release the husbands and fathers of those wives and kids.Just imagine lar all of you,if Hindraf is really a trouble maker,they could have gone to Penang in a bigger number too.Beleive me,they respected Pak lah alot,and still believe he is their beacon of light,hope Pak Lah for once can listen to his rakyat and do the right thing before he leaves office.Dont incarcerate people who ask for their rights and justice,under article 10 of the federal constitution we all as rakyat have the right to ask for our rights,after all politicians are there because of us rakyat.BTW you fellas will never see Indian gangsters if the govt had taken initiative to nip the bud from the beginning by addressing the issues of those poverty stricken estate people,if the govt can put in place various programs to address the issues of malay drug addicts,they can do the same for their rakyat of other races too.Kalau kerajaan pilih kasih,ini lah padah nya,lebih banyak lagi organisasi seperti hindraf akan muncul.Treat every citizen of the country with respect and love and you fellas will be reciprocated in the same manner.

    God save the nation.

  105. data says:

    UMNO gangsterz entered and created the same in Samy’s function? – cina baba

    UMNO mana ada koteh to go after samy vellu. He arranged to give millions to umno bumi contractors. In return they allowed him to cheat all the other indians like maika scandal and so on.

    If umno gangsters beat up semi value now, it will be poetic justice and the indians will be thrilled. Make it happen if you can it is a day many indians look forward to.

  106. […] FREE SPEECH ZONE 3 Should HINDRAF be banned? […]

  107. reshmann says:

    james chen,

    Taking into account that young lady’s strongly worded statement,Hindraf decided to make the police report only after her 1st aplogy smacked of arrogance and never sounded like a sincere apology.Rememeber she said`in her 1st apology she would only apologize to `educated ‘Indians?Just put yourself in the shoes of the Indian community,and some one curses your mother and the entire community,how would you feel?At least Hindraf and most malaysian Indians have been magnanimous enough to accept her apology(wether sincere or not,its up to her and her god).So dont jump the gun friend.

  108. reshmann says:

    To arigengo,two face and likes,

    What did hindraf do that made u fellas to pick on them?There was also another group went to the open house calling for the abolishment of ISA and release RPK,didnt they?Were you fellas present in the open house to witness everything?Why you fellas always allow the MSM to spin you guys?To present a raya card and a gift to our sleepy head PM is construed as `kurang ajar’?To plead to the PM to release their husbands and fathers is `kurang ajar’?Then where is democracy man?

    People like Zulkifli, gate crashing a legal bar forum like gangsters is called what then?How about having UMNO’s AGM on Deepavali day,a public holiday?How about UMNO racist leaders like Ahmad Ismail and his ilks tearing away Koh Tsu Koon’s photo and then calling the chinese as `penumpang’?How about hundreds of temple demolitions?How about the outburst by ITM students for a mere proposal of 10% intake for non-malays?The list can go on and on unfortunately.Ini semua bukan `kurang sopan’ ker?Those poor indians who hindraf spoke for are mainly from the very poor community in the urban areas and those displaced indians from estates,whose jobs and homes are gone just because some top umno echelon people decided to sell those estates to some rich taukes,henceforth made those estate people who are poverty stricken to become a new underclass in the urban areas.

    Hindraf is fighting only for those poor Indians who had been denied their rights as a legitimate citizen of the countries and had been marginalized by the govt for nearly 51 years.Where were you fellas when many Indians were killed in the kg medan incident?where were u fellas when so many bright but poor indian students were denied places in the local unis?Where were u fellas when hundreds od brilliant poor indian students were denied scholarships?

    Hindraf is not asking for crutches or tongkats lar mates,they are only asking for basic rights as to education,employment,loans,scholarships as rightful citizenswho also love the country.Kalau kerjaan pilih kasih,ini lah padah nya,The govt may ban Hindraf today,but there will be many more Hindrafs will be born,as long as the govt dont treat all Malaysians as the citizens of the country equally and fairly.

  109. made in java says:

    Yes Hindraf should be banned, so are UMNO, MIC, MCA. This are all racist group. PAS must also be banned cause you cannot mix religion with politics.

  110. toyolbuster says:

    This flippin jackass don’t even know that a national hari raya open house means it is open to all rakyat and guests of Malaysia. The rakyat pays the bill for fcuk sake. We don’t gate crash into a OPEN house. Dang dunggu.

  111. freewave says:

    I am against the government’s ISA. Neither do I agree with what Hindraf did recently. I’d say the approach was not strategically well plan. If you wanted to present the PM a rose and teddy, more likely a message, you don’t go in there in such a big group wearing the “Hindraf” t-shirt. The group either did not think before hand or perhaps they thought more people the better. There is nothing wrong with speaking your rights. But it is more like having a peaceful demonstration in an open house? Eventhough it was an open house, does that mean you should to do anything you want? I’m not a malay, but I would give the occasion some respect.

  112. storm62 says:

    aiyoyo you guys don’t fall into UMNO’s trap la!

    this UMNO is trying to create racial tension amongst the Rakyat so that they can come in as a Tai Kor to cease control of the situation.

    – they failed using the racist Ahmad to stir things up.
    – they failed using the toyol method.
    – they failed accusing teresa with the Azan call.
    – they failed using the UiTM’s students.

    all we need is to sit down and discuss this matter with Hindraf ka, anchor draft ka, tiger draft ka and solve this issue like a grown-up man. why ban this and that huh? we should use a professional approach rather then creating choas with each other.

    No to racist..No to ISA..FREE RPK & ALL ISA DETAINEES.

  113. “Hindraf is not asking for crutches or tongkats lar mates,they are only asking for basic rights as to education,employment,loans,scholarships as rightful citizenswho also love the country”

    is government denying indians to study just like south africa decades ago ? do you know what for cina to get stpm 5a does not guarantee a medical and engineering seat in poublic univ compare to indian. do you know that for same stpm/spm result, cina acceptance to public univ is lower than indian! and speaking of employment, what facts to backup indian marginalized – just because their population in the country < 5% doesn’t mean u have the company 50% indians!

    hindraf and mic sama sama saje, both fail to jaga their own ethnic, and hindraf is worse for whacking polis, organized street protest in peaceful country, does this enuf to warrant them to isa ?!

  114. No to ISA – all JI, nazi, al-alqam, pkm members start setting bases here, bomb cities scare away investors…. stock market turun to 300pt, forex depreciate 1000% (like weimar republic in 1920s), unemployment 30% …. thanks to no ISA……

  115. James Chen says:

    To Reshman,

    Pertaining to your No : 107 Post, your argued that the Chinese blogger’s 1st apology smacks of arrogance which I disagree.

    1) There is beyond a shadow of a doubt that her original posting were targeted at all (Malaysian) Indians when her mobilephone was stolen allegedly by Indians. This is very wrong as racism is criminal to paint all Indians negatively. There is no contest to argue that what she had written was racist.

    2) She seems to ameliorate with an apology which in the style
    lacks sincerity.

    Now, look at (2). She, I believe is not a lawyer. I believe she indiscreetly penned an apology lacks of cogently unconditional apology but at no material time, I am of the view that this (the apology) was intended to be intrinsically prejudicial but of her style and malaproprism.

    Again on (2), Hindraf should not be belligerent to an extent in lodging a police report against her when she had like I mentioned in 2 has showed a goodwill to rectify and apologize, which she re-did again in a 2nd apology.

    Unlike RPK who took it on the peoples who walks in the corridors of power, Hindraf should not take it on someone far inferior. To tell the truth, many whom I have spoken to are distancing from Hindraf because of this and other matters.

    In fact, the difference between Ahmad Ismail and the Chinese blogger was that the former exhibited not only no remorse but showed his belligerence while the latter did an apology.

    I am at no time saying that Kho Tsu Khoon, all political parties serving their UMNO masters are not exempted from blame, but I hope Hindraf could come to their sense in opening it’s struggle to pluralistic of race, and selfless cause.

    Again on the Chinese blogger, what is the difference when Hindraf lodged a police report against her and asked the police to act and on the other hand said they would accept her apology.

    Would it be oxymoron likewise that Pak Lah said he would forgive the Hindraf present at the Hari Raya Open house with unruly behavior and asking for the police to act at the same time? Again, Pak Lah from my perspective is no Najib. If it is Najib or Dr. Mahathir as someone personally told me, those who took to the streets had already ended up in Kamunting.

    I am not against Hindraf but the actions by esp. by their leaders are arrogant, race-based divisiveness and in some cases their words are just too strong (their letter to Queen Elizabeth 2).

    Daw Aung Sann Suu Kyi once replied to her interviewer in “A Voice of Hope”- “If we use violence to topple against SLORC (the military junta), even if we are successful, the cycle of violence will never ends” on why she adopted the methods of civil-disobedience having repeatedly failed.

    I rest my case for it is not me to judge others affairs, but when one manifestly seems no better than their aggressors, what difference does it make whoever assume power?

  116. Joe Rakyat says:

    Reject Leaders Who Do Not Respect Country’s Rakyat
    2008-10-09 15:04

    KUALA TERENGGANU: The Malaysian Rakyat Thursday (9 Oct) called on Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak to reject any form of unruly behaviour towards the country’s Rakyat.

    The Rakyat said they did not want such behaviour (such as leaders sulking and pouting like Beverly Hills 90210 actors) to become a norm because it could undermine unity and security of the country, including teddy bear sales.

    Citing as example the unruly incident at the Hari Raya open house of Prime Minister Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi and other Muslim cabinet ministers in Kuala Lumpur last Wednesday (1 Oct), where leaders conceitedly tried to brush off greeting members of the Rakyat simply because their t-shirts carried messages of support for detainees being held unjustly under the draconian ISA law. The Rakyat said such action could cause losses to the country.

    “If there are leaders with other motives, who don’t understand the Malaysian culture of courtesy, are rude and don’t respect the Rakyat, Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak must reject them. This kind of action cannot become a norm,” the Rakyat said.

    The Rakyat said the government held the open house (paid for by the Rakyat) to enable the leaders to meet and greet the Malaysian Rakyat who had graciously voted the leaders into parliament, without having to observe protocol.

    “Never in other countries can the leaders meet their Rakyat so easily. (But) this value of peace will be destroyed if certain leaders have other motives. This value of peace cannot be ignored,” said the Rakyat.

    The Rakyat said that if such actions persisted, it might not be possible to practise the open house concept in future and that would be a loss, because leaders such as Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak would no longer get cards and teddy bears.

  117. jetblackdragon says:

    i thought that leading was the act of going in the dirtiction we wish we were but do not do to the lack of fight in ourselfs to the action but vice verca the idea

  118. data says:

    anonymous dud is talking cock. Hindraf is not talking about the rubbish you are on about. Hindraf is talking about the whole attitude and perception and lifestyle created through keeping the estate workers (primarily) in positions of servitude. Even in Chinese estates the same situation prevails. Workers are practically slaves who owe their souls and bodies to the company store.

    Hindraf is not talking about the Samy Vellus and Ananda Krishnans and lawyers Karpal Singh and Co.
    They talk of those estate workers with no education living in houses much smaller than a 600 sq.ft. apartment thrown out in the streets because malay and chinese developers can make money.

    The only jobs they may be fit for is drain cleaners and lorry attendants. Even that they may have to pay a malay or chinese mandore. Foreign workers get a better deal. The only good thing about it is that more of these dregs of humanity can convert to islam as their temples get demolished and they get suffocated with repression by both malays and chinese.

    And that goes for that “clever” James Chen too.

  119. kittykat46 says:

    Hindraf’s methods are admittedly not submissively docile , which is the regime’s expectation of how we are supposed to treat our high and mighty leaders.
    But their cause is way beyond half-hearted polite measures.

    For decades now, the Indian community have been the collateral damage of the New Economic Policy. Their socio-economic position in the country has been dereriorating. High crime, high dropout rates, high rate of both rural and urban poverty, low academic achievement. They need government help, and they are being ignored.

    Yet, for a long time, Malaysian Indians have been for the most part very loyal supporters of BN. That has totally changed very much thanks to Hindraf’s “awakening” efforts – which is
    why the regime is so dead set against Hindraf.

    Who says without ISA the nation will become a base for terrorists ? There are plenty of laws in the Penal Code with very serious penalties for such offences. The big difference is the government would have to make the effort to gather the evidence and prove their guilt in an open court – which is how is supposed to be.

    On top of the inhumanity the use of ISA is just a symptom of plain laziness and incompetence on the part of the regime.

  120. ahmad ismail refer non-bumi as kaum pendatang …

    the blogger wrote:

    ..they carry the reputation of being stealer, robbers, rapist, idiots, morons, drunk bastards, and the list goes on…

    You Indians got no hands and legs to work and earn money is it? ….

    of both, you said the latter petty ……. if i’m hindraf chief, i will bring this case to court and let the gal explain for her innoncence and apologies in front of judge – hindraf is being lame overhere …

  121. tempo says:

    no..HINDRAF should not be banned…because it’s not a legitimate organization.. just a bunch of indians looking for publicity..supported by the big head Bar Council.. should have detained those idiots long time ago…

  122. Cina Baba says:

    Hindraf should be more polite thats all…

  123. reshmann says:

    anonymous dud,

    Do you know what is the problem with people like you?Always like to compare with under performing countries like SA.How many Indian students you have met personally in your life?Do you want me to show you a list of such brilliant students with a string of As yet fail to get the course that they worked for all their life?Have you seen some of them who are so poor,wth a string of As, unable to even continue their education in the private colleges because of poverty and ended up working for chinese companies as clerks?

    You dont seem to understand the main objective of my arguement here.As I had mentioned earlier,Hindraf is not fighting for crutches lar,what they are asking the govt is to be fair.That includes meritocracy.Hello we Indians are also global people,as my wife and I are now contributing to a western nation.Whose fault is it,if Indians can get into the unis with lower academic qualification than Chinese?
    I say make it equal,I am willing for my kids to challenge the chinese on equal footing.If my kids dont get the stipulated 5As for medicine than I will tell them to try again and work harder.You are just deviating from the main issue here.This shows your inexperience in life and failed to decipher the real issues at hand.You are merely trying to raise racial issues here and failed to touch on the core issues confronting the nation.Go and tell the govt to be fair and dont churn out malay drs or engineers with way low academic qualifications.
    Remember the rise of HIndraf have also benefitted the chinese either directly or indirectly as many chinese friends of my family and friends had expressed their support contrary to what James Chen had mentioned.

  124. jonathan says:

    nothing is straight in a china man,except his hair,so its better for indian `rude drunkards’ to be under lazy malays.


  125. Yee SW says:

    Hindraf is a peace loving and law abiding group fighting for their fundamental rights as Malaysian citizens.
    What type of morons we have in the government trying to ban this movement. These sucmbags are not only racialistic but have no brains.
    And here we have the so called “efficient” police force trying to harass this movement instead of resolving the horrible day to day crimes happening all over the country.
    By the way, here is one good comments from one blogger in MT today. Good piece of info:-

    “When it was highlighted that an ex-child genius was working as a high-class prostitute in UK, so many UMNO people offered to help her, but when so many young Penan girls were raped and taken advantage of, what do we have – silence????? Why – is it becoz there’s no glamour in protecting the native rights? Or you think it would be too troublesome? Or was it that you guys prefer to deal with cases that allows you to travel abroad or go holiday on the reason that you’re helping these people?

    So to the Puteras and Puteris of UMNO – you placed prostitutes and Mat Rempits above rape victims? Yeah – Again, your hypocrisy has shone ever so brightly again.


    – miniaturz at Citizen’s Blog, The Star

  126. jonathan says:

    Yee SW,

    Nice posting,hope people like arigengo,two face and anonymous dud open up their minds after reading this.

  127. reshmann says:


    yes detain hindraf and leave racist,murderers,corrupt govt leaders together with their cronies ok.Keep scoring dubious distinction for all the wrong reasons ok,like 47th rank under the INTERNATIONAL CORRUPTION PERCEPTION INDEX 2008,and fall out completely of THES-QS 2008 world top 200 university rankings.Great job.

  128. croak croak says:

    Have you ever attended their Thaipusam at Batu Caves? From sunset to sunset… if never, next year, make a point to be there…

    Maybe this little 5year-old teddy bear bearer did not understand the difference between Hari Raya Puasa and Thaipusam… So she got confused and thought that the mother was taking her to Thaipusam….

  129. It is a fact that HINDRAF (whether a registered organization or otherwise) is for one race – the Indians in Malaysia. BUT are they wrong to form such an organization?

    This is a spin-off and result of the BN/UMNO government who started the ball rolling by only fighting for one race – i.e. so-called Malaysian BUMIS. The BN/UMNO has always fallen back to the SPECIAL PRIVILEGES GIVEN TO ONE PARTICULAR RACE to cover their one-sided policies. So, it is wrong for the Indians to form HINDRAF? MIC has never (and will not fight for the Indians except for their own benefit) looked into and improve the living standards of the Indians, whom they were supposed to represent in the lob-sided BN government in the first place – what to do?

    Just look at the Chinese in Malaysia. Has MCA really looked into the cause of the race they are supposed to represent? A definite NO. If not for the Chinese’s powerful resilience and survival instinct, they would have resorted to the formation of CHINAF.

    Education in Malaysia is based on race and not merit (percentage-wise), So where do the Chinese go to improve themselves? Overseas, if they have the money. With the lack of opportunities in Malaysia, will they really think of coming back to Malaysia? Another definite NO.

    Well, in short, just sit back and think about the future of all other races in Malaysia (apart from the privileged lot). Will our future generation have any opportunity to achieve an acceptable living standard in Malaysia, with the present government not permitting everyone to play on one level playground. Bleak, bleak, indeed very bleak – sad to say!

    So don’t blame HINDRAF. This is the only way that they know how to speak up and represent the down-trodden Indians. The BN/UMNO government will not give a damn to any race in Malaysia except for ONE.

  130. two-face says:


    Hindraf Tamil Tigers are looking for a scapegoat for all their shortcomings. The caste system is the one that should be dismantled. The higher caste won’t employ or even touch the “untouchables” or “p****h” as they are called.

    Hindraf Tamil Tigers should help this people, give them work and not make them as slaves to the community. Don’t talk about rights when the Indians can’t even recognise the rights of these “untouchables”.

  131. Anonymous says:

    did something better for indian.only well educated people can done something our comunity.dont be selfish.we must voice out for comunity.

  132. Anonymous says:

    keeping quite all the way will kill our comunity


  134. HINDRAF should NOT be banned b’coz MIC does not and will not represent and protect the interest of the majority of Malaysian Indians.

    Meanwhile, CHINAF should be formed to present and protect the interest of ALL Malaysian Chinese. MCA has not proven that they truelly represent the Chinese for the past 50 yaers and will not do so in the next coming 50 years. As long as they are in BN. UMNO has all the say and MCA will be the “YES” party

    At least GERAKAN is now attempting to look into “FAIRNESS” to all , irrespective of race or religion. Do keep it up but GERAKAN may have to leave the BN coalition to be really efective.

  135. reshmann says:


    I feel hindraf or chinaf or ibanaf should join forces.As poverty does not distinguish between race or color.I know many chinese friends who support hindraf but they dont dare to do it openly for reasons best known to them.Should our chinese brethren decide to join hindraf rest assured they will be welcomed wth open arms,after all hindraf is not a political organization,it is a voice of people spirit comprised of the hard core poor and the poor,fighting to survive in a govt system which only advocates the supremacy of one particular ethnic group while putting many obstacles in front of the others who are non-malays.Game for it?

  136. I was really rolling my eyes at some of the posts

    1) Hindraf has nothing to do with tamil Tigers or LTTE (Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam)
    This was cooked up by the government, endorsed by Samy Velu to justify the detention of Hindraf 5-samy later flip flopped on the Tamil Tigers link in an interview with NDTV India.
    Info at this link –

    2) Some of you errorneaously painted a picture that that the “racist” chinese blogger challenged hindraf and refused to apologise after her handphone got stolen….This is incorrect, hername is Sammy Chan 22 years of age…

    She said this : “I sincerely and honestly apologise to all Malaysians, not just Indians, as my comments have offended them,”

    When contacted, Thanenthiran said Hindraf would accept Chan’s apology.

    “We understand now that it was a ‘spur of the moment’ outburst. We sympathise with her loss of her phone. We hope that the lesson learnt from the controversy will help her to be more careful in future,’

    Just to set the record straight.

  137. jeff says:

    Whatever movement or organization in bolehland poses a threat to the u-no-putra special position and privilege, normally will be banned regardless they are Malaysians or not!

  138. joenathan says:

    Kluang man,
    Tengok apa Umno kau buat kat negara kita ni?Pasal umno nak kuasa dia buat kita rakyat malaysia yg cintakan kedamaian,keji satu sama lain.Lain kali sebelum keji masyarakat yg keje kuat tu,tolong lah pakai otak kau sikit,ok.Kalau hari ini cina,india,kuar dari malaysia,habis kau orang,ingat tu,ok.Jangan lupa,titik peluh bangsa lain juga membangunkan malaysia kita.Kalau kau nak tengok,I boleh bawa kau,tujuk berapa ramai melayu yg kroni kerajaan, minum arak dan enjoy kat dangdut,termasuk pegawai2 polis yg tinggi,kat tempat2 yg high class.Pegi lah minta mereka.nape ta tolong ramai orang2 melayu yg miskin?Kan kerajaan selalu bilang dia tu jaga kepentingan orang2 melayu?Ni kau nak ejek rakyat miskin india tu yg minta tolong buat per ,yer?otak udang,kakakakaa.

  139. T.O.H. says:


  140. bodonomic says:

    Mumbai massacre carried out by islamists with malaysia links. AG why so quiet?

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