While UMNO’s Ahmad Ismail chooses his racist statement over UMNO or national unity, Zulkifli Nordin, the controversial Kulim MP says in his blog “I’d rather choose Islam over Parti [Keadilan]”.

The last time I checked, he obtained about 50 comments for his post, most of them in support of his actions.

Zul, who calls himself “the riding MP” in his blog, faces the party’s disciplinary committee headed by PKR deputy president Syed Husin Ali on 9 September 2008 @ 10.00 am.

“When the time comes and I have to choose between Islam and the party, I will still choose Islam although it would be a lost to me, in view of Pakatan Rakyat taking over the government on 16 September”.

Zulkifli was one of those overzealous protestors who tried to stop a forum on conversion to Islam organised by the Bar Council on 9 August.

He explained that he acted in that manner because he felt the forum organisers had insulted Islam, and he would defend his religion although it was against the views of several sectors.

Is PKR willing to lose Zulkifli?

Would they ask him to apologise?

Or would he be left off with a slight smack on his wrist?

Or would it really depend on how many MPs Anwar Ibrahim has already ensnared into his September 16 plan?


249 responses »

  1. daryl says:

    Zul you miss represent Islam. Even Paul denounce Isa three times but he was forgiven. You only truly reperesnt Islam when you know when to back off and when to shout like an idiot. Other than that you are a liability to your Allah and your fellow muslims.

  2. Jed Yoong says:

    But will Islam want him?
    I mean he can’t really speak for Muslims, only his constituents.
    He is not a ulama, etc.
    I think other Muslims have said his behaviour is inappropriate for a Muslim.
    To me, it’s unpaliamentary behaviour, an offence.

  3. And I’m supporter number 3

  4. hasilox says:

    The issue is not what he chooses. Very importantly, is he suitable to lead in the globalized world? Tough talk only for pussies. See how much ahmadinejab has jeopardized iran. Bolehland is thousands time more vulnerable to external pressure.

  5. mist clearing says:

    to walk the talk,he does not fit into the keadilan agenda

    he is one of those shallow life form who will fight for justice in the name of religion BUT not in the name of god[ whom we come from,existed and return to]

  6. patek1472 says:

    A Tribute to RPK For Your Dreams. (Suatu Penghormatan kepada RPK atas Impian Mu)

    The latest news about RPK in Malaysiakini and Malaysia Today, that he would be detained under the ISA have moved me to dedicate this speech by one of the great Freedom Fighters in the world, Martin Luther King Jr. ” I Have a Dream” to him.

    (Berita terbaru tentang RPK di Malaysiakini dan Malaysia Today, bahawa beliau akan ditahan dibawah ISA telah mengharukan hati saya untuk mendedikasikan ucapan oleh seorang Pejuang Kebebasan Dunia, Martin Luther King Jr. bertajuk “Saya ada Impian” kepada beliau.)

    Let us reminiscent over it at http://patek1472.wordpress.com

    (Marilah kita mengenangkan tentangnya di http://patek1472.wordpress.com )

  7. fomca says:

    The idiot is not fit to be an MP

  8. wandererAUS says:

    One cannot serves two masters, when there is a conflict of interests like Zul is facing, he should resign from PK and remain an independent, or, give up politic completely. He cannot continue to mislead the people of Bandar Kulim he represents as their MP…that is even more un-islamic.
    The Bar Council Forum has not challenged or insulted Islam, it was only a discussion for the betterment of a islam, so that, it will sit well for both muslim and non-muslim in a multi-religious country like Malaysia.
    Surely a religion like islam has survived more than a thousand years, can withstand a public discussion. Zul, your Allah does not need you to champion His teachings.

  9. Menyalak-er says:

    Well Susan, PKR has been dithering on this issue which was supposed to be done with last week.
    Athough there is much ire about this blurs antics, it is also known that the case of the Kulim seat is on the line, due to the impending court decision.
    I think the PKR’s head honcho’s are awaiting word of that decision, before taking the next step. Cannot ‘tergesa-gesa’ here, its about the numbers.
    A slap on the wrist – definitely. A punch in the gut to make him apologize, unlikely… Kick him out, let him be an independent? Don’t think so.
    Lol, so much for politics. Compromise, compromise…, what about the PAS youth chief? Understanding huh, you guys? Are you’ll calling for his head on a platter from PAS?
    If the court declares the GE12 results for Kulim null and void, they’ll have to drop him like a hot ruminant poo ubi. Then he may stand in as a spoiler betw. PKR and Bumno. Guess who’s gonna win?

  10. Anak Kulim says:

    PKRM does not need an MP for Kulim like Zulkifli. He should have joined PAS. Let him choose Islam over PKRM. Zul is certain to be disqualified as MP for Kulim and PKRM should not let him contest the seat. PKRM should put another person, then only can the new candidate beat that UMNO racist mamak Aziz Sheikh Fadzir

  11. Do the right thing at the right place for the right reason
    Don’t simply jump to any conclusion thinking you’re in season
    We’re answerable to both God and man in case of any treason
    So let’s free our minds from any form of religious prison

    (C)Samuel Goh Kim Eng – 080908
    Mon. 8th Sept. 2008.

  12. mas merah says:

    Salam sejahtera
    Tentukan pendirianmu en zul.

    Jangan berdolak-dalik please.


  13. terry says:

    zul the extremist, go and live in your own extremistic ivory tower. Don the tarnish the name of ‘keadilan’ !

  14. Mat Bond says:

    Go, Zul. By all means with the blessings of all Malaysians if you think you can be a hero for ISLAM. Quit politics and go to Middle East to defend ISLAM and fight for justice in the Palestinian Cause. We would like to see what you could do. After all, you are not fit to be in political arena with your closed small pea brain and knowing not what your objectives and reasons in politics. It is a blessing too for Keadilan and PKR being void of xxxhole like you.

  15. A true Malaysian says:

    I always of the view that Malay politician should not drag Islam into politics. By saying he has to choose Islam and not PKR is actually one of the many examples where Islam becomes a ‘victim’ to politics.

    Please don’t make Islam as an excuse to face any disciplinary action that you may face.

    Let say if Zul can admit his wrong, I am sure many people will have high regard on him and at the same time promote Islam as a beautiful religion.

    If you can do that, then you do a big favour not only to yourself , but also to multiracial ideology, and realisation of 916 that all of us are hoping for.

    Hope you can do that, don’t follow that Penang kid.

  16. Valerie says:

    One thing for sure>>>he admits that it is a loss for him as PAKATAN RAKYAT will take over on !6th Sept. Smart Boy>

  17. koolgeek says:

    here is my comment on his post (I am pretty sure it won’t get approved there)


    i will ask you to make your stand and resign from PKR because your attitude is not fit to be in a multiracial party. to me, you are not even fit to be a lawyer.

    this world is a lot messier with non-thinking human like you who’d rather believe in what you fantasize and would rather forgo all that is real in this world. well, here is one advice, just leave this world now so you can go to your fantasy world a little earlier. this is win-win for both you and the world.

    there are people who want to make this world a better place. and there are those who would care only his ‘after’ world. take my advice, just leave this world to us. go now.

    judging from all the comments here, i guess this will not be approved. anyway, i just want to get my message across to your thick skull.

  18. koolgeek says:

    he is just another selfish zealot wanting to buy his ticket to heaven.

    in the end, it’s all about himself.

    he would rather choose his ‘afterlife’ than current life. meaning, it’s people like him that would do whatever it takes to get his ‘ticket’ to heaven.

    hope he is not aiming for the few virgins prize over there.

  19. bennyloh says:

    “I’d rather choose being sacked over giving you a showroom display unit” says the jaga to an infuriated sweet young thing who afterall, ask for only a strand of the snowish fluffy beard. Instead he slid his hand into his pants to where the storeroom is suppose to be and pulled out one for her!

  20. suresh says:

    I had the opportunity to listen to his video, courtesy of Harris of people parliament. in my opinion he is lost in the name of religion. he became self-centered and extremely prejudice t other religions.

    To Zulkifli and others who have lost their path to right understanding of religion I just wish to share the words of wisdom from one of the best Muslims in the world, who is none other than former president of India, Honorable Abdul Kalam. He said this when he was in KL.

    Following excerpt from star 31.08.08.
    “As a Muslim in a secular but Hindu-majority India, Dr Abdul Kalam is revered for his efforts in forging unity and tolerance among faiths. He reportedly reads the Quran and the Bhagavad Gita with equal devotion.

    When asked what his message would be to Malaysia’s multi-ethnic, multi-religious population, he said: “Based on what I have studied, I believe that all religions have two components. One is theology; the other is spirituality. For theology, every religion has its own unique system, which it protects.

    “But spirituality is the common factor for all religions. It is the bridge that connects all religions.”

  21. NoktahHitam says:

    Zul can just apologise admit his mistake and promise it will never happen again. He’d save Islam and PKR’s face at the same time.

    Egoist? So is Anwar, sikit2 sue.

  22. cekka says:

    I think.. Zul better apologize to his non-muslim friends in Pakatan Rakyat, and Lim Kit Siang has to apologize to his muslim friends in the party. Fair enough??

  23. Jinkeluarlambatly says:

    Some of the commentators may be from UMNo to further instigate the said MP for his “wild” cause. He will fall onto a BN set trap.

  24. DrQ says:

    To all of you who love to post your comments,

    I urge you please go read what Islamic law is about from the Quran and hadtihs.. dont just come here and bark like you know the topic at hand. The rules in Islam are fixed and even a lay man can understand this… u do need ulamak at times if u dont understand something ..but a lay man who is a non muslim will also understand the fundementals, basic context in which the laws in Islam is written ( if u gonna read books on this pls get a reliable source..always refer to the Quran and hadeeths as u read )… dont believe me go read…

    After u have read u will understand why the Muslims cannot change things. IT IS FIXED.. THE LAWS IN ISLAM IS MADE BY GOD. ITS IN THE QURAN AND HADEETHS.. this are the believes of the muslims… to alter them to suit any party or one person is being disrespectful and like anyone reading this if u r violated and someone is trying to change the fabric of your belief.. u would fight back too. However the manner in which u approach would be different depending on how much you love the religion.. I love Islam as i love christianity and judaism and should anyone try to alter my religion i will stand and protect it.. not only because it is asked of us muslims to defend the religion but also because its my right to defend my religion against someone who is trying to change the word of God.

    Finally i assign blame to the ulama for keeping quiet. I hope when the new government is formed.. all the ulama that r so afraid to open their mouth and give information about islam, be dragged out and shot. I dont blame the people of Malaysia for being so confused about Islam.. Its the governments fault and their shity article that reads “all those who r melayu are therefor muslims” statement.. Islam is not for one race and it didnt come down to the melayus.. its for all and its simple.

    Pls MELAYU AND ISLAM are 2 different things… u all have seen Islam twisted..if it was really that bad it wouldnt be the fastest growing religion on the planet. Write to Ustaz NIk Aziz..pls ask him…

  25. Ronin says:

    Anwar’s Trojan Horse

    The Real Judas

    Anwar Ibrahim wants BN to think the defections before 16 September are going to come from Sabah and Sarawak. This explains the focus and frenzy surrounding MPs from East Malaysia. Their movements are being monitored, text messages have been swirling about en bloc defections and some, like Yong Teck Lee and Bernard Giluk Dompok, have been dropping broad hints about wanting to abandon the BN ship.

    But the unsuspecting BN leadership is completely unaware of Anwar’s actual game plan. Sabah and Sarawak are the great diversions – Anwar’s red herrings. Sure, he may eventually end up with some defectors from East Malaysia, but the real trigger that he wants to pull will be right under UMNO’s nose. For Anwar, he needs to start with a bang. Something that will cause all other smaller component parties to tremble and quake in their boots leaving them with little choice but to jump en masse.

    What Anwar wants to do is to show that he can go for the big scalps. Not your SAPP or UPKO small number of MPs, but from the senior UMNO front bench. What better way of triggering a mass exodus from BN than to show that you have top leaders from BN’s biggest party crossing over into PKR? This is the big bang that Anwar has been working on. Two or three front benchers from UMNO plus five other second tier leaders will be enough to precipitate chaos and panic within the BN ranks. It will be the catalyst of a free-for-all ship abandonment as though sailors have spotted a plague-infested rat on deck.

    So, who has Anwar marked as the real Judas in this most audacious of power grab in the history of Malaysian politics. Its not that difficult to answer. Think of someone most hard done by Abdullah Badawi and Najib Razak’s gentleman’s agreement to transfer power in 2010. Someone who had political wind in his sails after the March election only to now see his future in doubt as UMNO gets ready to pick younger leaders in its annual congress. Someone who way back when, had the most coziest of cozy relationship with Anwar.

    Yes, Anwar is targeting Muhyiddin Yassin to be the Judas. Muhyiddin is said to have lined up at least three other front benchers and a handful more from the back benches. Many of these MPs are fed up of both Abdullah and Najib, and see the grass being far greener with Anwar. Many of them were also ardent Anwaristas when the Opposition Leader was climbing up the greasy pole of UMNO politics.

    These crossovers are said to be mutually beneficial in more ways than one. Anwar knows that the current composition of Pakatan MPs in Parliament is almost half Malay and half non-Malay. If he only manages to woo non-Malay BN MPs to defect, he will effectively head a non-Malay dominated government. This would be hard for the Malay-majority electorate to accept not to mention institutions like the royalty, military, armed forces and civil service. Anwar, therefore, desperately needs Malay MPs to defect from BN. In order for this to happen, he needs a Malay BN leader with enough seniority to attract others to follow suit. Hence, Muhyiddin.

    But that’s not all. Anwar has already over-promised his buddies in DAP. He knows that he has to make Lim Kit Siang one of his Deputy Prime Ministers. That’s not going to sit well with Malays, whether they are UMNO, PAS or PKR supporters. Regardless of the muhibbah rhetoric coming out of Pakatan and its acceptance by the Bangsar Starbucks Melayu, the heartland and grunt Malays cannot stand Kit Siang. To them he and his party stand for everything that is anti-Malay.

    That being the case, Anwar has to counter-balance Kit Siang’s appoitment as DPM with a heavyweight Malay politician as another deputy. Of course he could appoint Hadi Awang and complete the unholy trinity of Pakatan parties as PM and two DPMs, and he probably would offer Hadi the post anyway. But he knows that Hadi cannot be trusted. After all, it is Hadi and Nasharuddin Mat Isa that almost tore PAS out of Pakatan with their secret rendezvous with Abdullah. Anwar has neither forgiven nor forgotten this act of betrayal by Hadi. He also knows that during the Permatang Pauh by-election, it wasn’t Hadi that came to pinch hit for him in the last few days to turn Malay opinion around in the light of Saiful Bukhari’s religious oath that he was buggered by Anwar. Hadi came briefly, gave a 10 minute speech complaining of a cough and hot footed it out of there. Instead it was Nik Aziz Nik Mat that came to Anwar’s rescue, using his aura as a pondok alim to persuade the faithful in Permatang Pauh not to believe Saiful’s oath.

    Anwar’s preferred choice as DPM from PAS is not an MP. He is the man that whispers instructions into Nik Aziz’s ear and he was the most senior PAS leader present when Anwar was declared winner after all the votes were tallied. Husam Musa cannot, for now, join a federal government because of state duties in Kelantan, but he is very much the bridge that Anwar wants to cultivate in PAS.

    So with the bad blood between Anwar and Hadi, even if Anwar offers Hadi a DPM post it would be out of courtesy to keep Pakatan together. Which means he would need another senior Malay leader to be a third deputy and the de facto most senior deputy with Anwar’s full confidence and trust. He could appoint Azmin, but many would be uncomfortable with that prospect. So who better than Muhyiddin – a senior cabinet minister with experience in government. An UMNO warlord who can attract support from UMNO Malays and prevent Anwar from looking too dependent on non-Malay support. And most crucially, someone who Anwar trusts because back in the days of Anwar as DPM, when he said jump, Muhyiddin jumped.

    If BN leaders are looking at East Malaysia for potential jumpers, they are looking far away from where the threat really is. Anwar has secured Muhyiddin and its merely a matter of timing. Muhyddin has to deliver Anwar a handsome number of MPs in return for being made DPM under Anwar. That, according to sources, is underway and the count is increasing by the day.

    The plan is simple yet clever. Obvious yet deceptive. BN is about to lose the kingdom from right under its nose.

  26. raktamrittika says:

    Come on.. dont be so narrow minded lah guys!!..
    Everyone have their own perseption about their religion. What will you do if your religion is being questioned? Surely some of you will be “jumpy” as well.
    And will you choose your party over your religion?.. dont think so.

    Zul is the backbone of “REFORMASI”.. which has brought DSAI where he is today. That alone should have count for something..right?

  27. Menyalak-er says:

    Suresh (0232), i couldn’t agree with Dr. Abdul Karim more.
    The main problem for these people is their innate egocentrism and religiosity.
    ‘Spirituality’ is unknown to them – its form over substance.
    I do believe Tuan Guru Nik Aziz is one of the most enlightened Muslims, and as per suggested per DrQ, it would be wise for PKR to ask his opinion.
    We have judged that blur in a modern sociocultural ‘justice’ context.
    As in all religious things, we have to be aware of the ‘cultural relativism’ that we tend to promote to our detriment – in all things, patience and seek understanding.
    Chastise and correct only when we truly understand the underlying reason for misbehavior. We cannot do this with secular methods when the miscreant uses his version of religiosity and (?)logic for defense. We must ‘bark’ with reason, like in the case of that Ahmad fkur, who was outright abusive.
    In any religion, there are ‘fringe’ groups, that are out to create havoc.
    Must we follow their fanaticsm by promoting our own ‘brand of fanatic multiculturism’ or ‘die trying to’ sort of nonsense?
    An atheist too, has a ‘religion’ called atheism too, do we kill them all because they do not believe in God, or in some cases only $$$?
    But whatever said, religion in politics should be finely balanced.
    “The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.” Dr. Spock.

  28. anarky says:


  29. a little angel says:

    Another ‘prophet’ in the making.

    Understanding Mohammad

  30. Jed Yoong says:

    Hey, Will Zul jump over to UMNO and say, “UMNO tegakkan Islam, sebab tu saya LOMPAT…”?


  31. ktemoc says:

    THis calls for man man lai 😉

  32. ANg Kong says:

    what I am worried is that the msgs in the Quran have been twisted and distorted beyond any recognition, the same can be said to almost all religions in the world. However, if one digs deep, the fundamentals still remain unchanged n very often one does not need to embrace any god to understand these.

    when one mixes religion n politic…. the end result potentially can be catastrophic. History has shown us but stubborn as we are, we just never learn. It all boils down to ‘G R E E D’.

  33. hadi says:

    Political maturity that we need. Take whatever position you want and say it without being hypocrite. Be honest and sincere and face the consequences come what may, after all that is liberty. I respect this guy.

  34. mangsa ISA says:

    Zulkifli Nordin tu cakap je nak Islam, tapi setakat di bibir beliau je!!! Buktinya, dah hampir 7 tahun suami aku dalam ISA, mana pernah dia nak jengok. Dia sebut je nak tolong bebaskan tahanan ISA, tapi aku tak pernah tengok muka dia dalam kempen GMI. Dah lah….lebih baik tak ada MP macam dia. Macam mana PKR boleh ambik dia jadi MP dulu???

  35. Kopi Anan says:

    Most definitely.

    But the question is, what is the Islam that you are thinking, deliberating, articulating, internalizing that constitute your “worldview ” or sometimes refer to as Welstanschaunng.

    What is the Islam that fills your Soul? [eg. when you return to your Creator, that YOU=Soul is in the State of Being at “Salam” for God is “al salam”.

    PK is simply promising a transient or temporary respite which on balance may be just the medicine or antidote for many a Malaysian.

    Anwar Ibrahim may die tomorrow and the whole thing crumbles and UMNO may be dancing all nite long.

    They, the UMNO MPs may be celebrating in Australia, Beijing, Taiwan, London or why not Las Vegas …. they say the buffet food at Eiffel Tower is marvelous, but don’t mind the girls that visits you in the room.

    Anybody for BlackJack !

  36. XXXX says:

    ANg Kong (04:24:35) : what I am worried is that the msgs in the Quran have been twisted and distorted beyond any recognition

    You fakirs dunno anything about Islam. What msgs have been twisted or distorted? And you are worried? Fool, get this VERY CLEAR – muslims are above non muslims, you fakirs can NEVER be EQUAL to muslim. UNDERSTAND.
    You have certain rights but you are not equal. FAHAM, BODO don try to corrupt the islamic teaching.

  37. road smoke says:

    To discuss of Islam, only the ulamas and Islamic intellectuals are permitted cos there a plenty of supportive knowledge required before any discussion can be held…not any Tom, Dick and Harry or muslim politicians. That is why Zul has gone off his head…..what more when a non-muslim wants to discuss issues on Islam.

  38. XXXX says:

    Zul is RIGHT. Only fakirs and starbucks muslims talk different.

  39. White Light says:

    Bottom line Zul should not have acted on his own. He should have quit PKR if he wanted to champion his idealogies on his own.

  40. road smoke says:

    White Light , I do agree with you but the Islamic Authorities in Malaysia are not funtioning truly and malfunctioning and they do not heed to the situation. Zul is fighting on his own, not under the banner of PKR.

  41. XXXX says:

    Menyalak-er (01:26:09): An atheist too, has a ‘religion’ called atheism too, do we kill them all because they do not believe in God,

    In true Islam they should be.

  42. XXXX says:

    Idol worshippers also should be given a chance to convert 3 times. If they refuse they are enemies of islam.

  43. Ikan Kekek says:

    Sudahlah korang semua… Tindakan YB Zul adalah yang terbaik… Kenapa pulak Muslim sahaja perlu meminta maaf kepada non muslim? Tindakan beliau betul dan sekiranya diambil tindakan disiplin, saya lebih rela sekiranya YB Zul di pecat dari PKR daripada meminta maaf atas kesalahan yang tidak dilakukan… Mempertahankan Islam adalah keutamaan dan kalau tidak, jadilah seperti UMNO yang cuma menyatakan keutamaan Islam itu dibibir sahaja…

  44. […] I’d rather choose Islam over Parti Keadilan While UMNO’s Ahmad Ismail chooses his racist statement over UMNO or national unity, Zulkifli Nordin, the […] […]

  45. XXXX says:

    Ikan Kekek (07:01:26)

    … Mempertahankan Islam adalah keutamaan dan kalau tidak, jadilah seperti UMNO yang cuma menyatakan keutamaan Islam itu dibibir sahaja…

    Betul saudara, sekarang orang bukan islam dah terlampau

  46. XXXX says:

    Islam should be made compulsory in schools so ALL children get a chance to understand and love the true teachings.

  47. road smoke says:

    Memang sekarang orang bukan Islam suka mempersendakan Islam. Dan ramai orang Islam sendiri tidak faham Islam sebenarnya…tambah lagi mereka bawah lambang UMNO. Apabila Samy Velu tanya ” apa ……bolih bikin highway ka” orang UMNO gelak ketawa, tak rasa pun sakit ataupun terhina. Mana pergi akidah mereka. UMNO sendiri membiarkan Islam dihina dan dipermainkan. Kenapa tidak? Siapa memerintah selama 50 tahun yg lalu? Apa Islam telah jadi lebih mantap dpd 1957?

  48. batu gurun says:

    Road Smoke,

    Memang betul kalau aku ada semasa tu memang si Samy tu kena penampar dengan aku…kurang ajar ….itu lah jihad aku pada masa tu. Kita pernah pun hina mana2 agama tapi mereka dah melampau.

  49. batu gurun says:

    Maaf…Kita tak pernah pun hina mana2 agama

  50. Bigjoe99 says:

    The problem is he did not choose both!!! He was just wrong on both counts!!

    How is it choosing Islam when he got the whole forum idea all wrong? How is it he is fighting for Islam when he resorts to violence instead of discussion? Botak Chin said he was fighting for the common man and he was just as popular as him. If Zul is fighting for Islam, the mamak gang might as well claim to be fighting for Hindraf….

  51. XXXX says:

    V.82: Indeed, you will surely find that the most vehement of men in enmity to those who believe are the Jews and the polytheists.

    V.51: O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who takes them for friends is one of them.

  52. batu gurun says:

    Jed Yoong

    UMNO will never tegakkan Islam..I bet to my last ringgit la. Dia bertopeng saja. Islam is uncomfortable to them…..such as no rasuah,,pakai tudung ( secara betul) for the women folks, no zalim, Islamic laws and many many lagi la. Ta’payah kita discuss…semua orang tau.

  53. XXXX says:

    “… They are those whom Allah has cast aside and on whom His wrath has fallen and of whom He has made some as apes and swine…” (5:60); “…You have surely known the end of those from amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath, in consequence of which we condemned them: Be ye like apes, despised” (2:65)

  54. livegoeson says:

    XXXX (06:31:56) :

    your insistence that islam is above all others and the only truth has already blinded you to “Truth”.

    The only Truth cannot be defined by mortal man, let alone even understand them. And it doesn’t need any defense from “muslims, christians, buddhishts ” etc.

    The moment you insist that you are the only righteous kind you are already preaching the message of Hate, not compassion.

    Feel sorry for you.

  55. bamboo river says:

    Is PKR willing to lose Zulkifli?—Politicians comes and goes.The question is if Kulim willing to lose him?

    Would they ask him to apologise?— He should without being asked. Not because the reason he protested, But for the way he protested.

    Or would he be left off with a slight smack on his wrist?—PKR should be responsible for the action of their party members.PKR chooses the candidates and the rakyat elected them as our representatives.

    Or would it really depend on how many MPs Anwar Ibrahim has already ensnared into his September 16 plan?—- I think that should not be an excuse for PKR if the members has acted beyond the party’s principles.

    However, if Zul decides that Islam comes first before the party, I would like to know if he had thought this over before agreeing to contest as MP in the GE12?
    Once you are elected, you represent the multi racial society as a whole. Islam is the guiding force for you to lead, protect,serve and assist the society regardless of race or religion.

  56. road smoke says:


    Make an indepth study of Islam with an unbiased and prejudiced mind. You may see some light if Allah wills.

  57. XXXX says:

    livegoeson hates islam so he wants to reword koran now. He thinks he is Prophet.

  58. XXXX says:

    Before they comment about hate they should learn the koran

  59. CJC says:

    Many say they represent Islam but I don’t see so much of the Islamic traits in them – and certainly not in Zulkifli Nordin. I’m lucky to have met with/befriended Muslim who in my opinion would be a model Muslim.
    At least they intepret the Quran and the ways of the Prophet in a way much civilized than Nordin and the so-called defenders of Islam, UMNO.
    It’s time you stop using religion and your god just to appear a heroic person to your people.
    Just because you use your religion and the name of Allah doesn’t mean you’re sinless. Blady arrogant mendicant!

  60. XXXX says:

    livegoeson said “Feel sorry for you”

    Muslims fell sorry for you as you will be in eternal hellfire non-believer. It is written.

  61. livegoeson says:

    road smoke (08:06:43) :

    note i didn’t made any negative comments on “Islam” and I have no prejudice against Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism or Hinduism etc.

    i am commenting on the “men” who interprets religions.

    Shakespeare commented ” “What’s in a name, that which we called Rose ?”

  62. XXXX says:

    CJC -At least they intepret the Quran and the ways of the Prophet in a way much civilized

    Those are starbucks muslims who will see the correct way when Islamic Laws are in place.

  63. V2 says:

    Doinks! Who’s discussing Islam? they’re discussing issues concerning them. How’d anyone love Islam and it’s teachings if people calling themselves Muslims are so arrogant and treat others condescendingly?
    How’d one want to know about Islam if they’re always treated like an enemy?

  64. XXXX says:

    now he says Shakespeare = Prophet

  65. XXXX says:

    MCA MIC GERAKAN PPP already agreed malaysia is Islamic State. Malaysia is also Head of OIC.

  66. XXXX says:

    V2 -How’d one want to know about Islam if they’re always treated like an enemy?

    Must start young. All schools in country must teach Islam to the students so they can convert to true beliefs not idol worshipping. Then there can be unity. Most islamic countries non believers are very few because most non believers have converted or have left.

  67. leithaisor says:

    I think it will be fair enough to give Zulkifli the maximum benefit of the doubt, and consider his behaviour at the Bar Council forum was truly – to him – a “perjuangan” for Islam.

    Note that there were statements issued by various Islamic/political leaders, reportedly including PAS’ Tok Guru if I recall correctly, for all Muslimin to go en-mass to defend Islam on the day of the forum.

    If Zulkifli acted wrongly, these statements likely contributed a lot to his misdeed. If Zulkifli is wrong, then at least part of the blame lies with the Islamic/political leaders. Including Nik Aziz.

    But far more basic than that, it still puzzles me why the Bar Council forum was viewed as menghinakan Islam. Why was it that learned and honest Muslim leaders considered the forum as something which attacked Islam?

    When such leaders have that viewpoint, I do not really fault the many, many Muslims who listen to their respected and trusted leaders’ statements.

    (Note that I am not inclduing Zulkifli in the “learned and honest Muslim leaders” group; I am referring to people like Tok Guru, an acknowledged Muslim authority and leader. Zulkifli has yet to prove himself worthy of inclusion in that group.)

    As such, my opinion is that the issue of the behaviour of the Muslims who misbehaved at the Bar Council forum cannot be restricted to the PKR disciplinary committee hearing called to deal with Zulkifli’s actions and words.

    Within Pakatan, I think the top leaders must meet, assisted by a small number of expert aides if necessary, for a heart-to-heart clear the air discussion. The ground rules must be set for the Pakatan stance on Islamic matters.

    We need the honest and learned Islamic leaders to discuss openly with the non-Muslim leaders, for both sides to air their concerns, fears and grievances, and reach a common understanding.

    Failure to do so will leave a festering cancer which will undermine the future of Pakatan and the nation. UMNO/BN will surely make use of this weakness to try to drive a wedge between the Muslims and the non-Muslims in Pakatan and the nation.

    I hope that both Zulkifli and his supporters, and those who are incensed with his words and deeds at the Bar Council forum, will take a deep breath and try to open their minds as far as is possible.

    When I read the comments from both sides, it is immediately evident how wide the chasm is. But to achieve any long-term good, we need to consider the bigger picture beyond whether one PKR MP has betrayed his electorate in favour of his religion and whether he is a true champion of Islam worthy of undying support.

    Try to accord as much respect to the other side, and look at what they have to say with as much empathy as possible, approaching the issues without assumed positions of superiority and setting aside entrenched prejudices as far as is humanly possible.

    Everyone has much to gain if instead of being antagonists, we can learn to understand, appreciate and respect each other more.

  68. iswarahijau says:

    punishing zul will move away Malay supporters from PKR and UMNO will use this issues to the extent that PKR is promoting liberalism,threatening Islam as the official religion of malaysia. I bet PKR won’t harm Zul. Otherwise more and more malays will defect from PKR and Muzakarah UMNO-PAS for the sake of religion and malays will succeded and be joined by people fro PKR as well. Islam is what PAS,UMNO and malays faction in PKR have in common and they will stand together to defend it. I know many people might think that Bar council didnt really insult Islam,but to the majority of the Muslims,that forum shouldnt be held at the first place. So, if PKR punish him,it will only lead to the destruction of PR, and will bring to the establishment of majority Malays UMNO-PKR-PAS governtment. Sad but true.

  69. livegoeson says:

    XXXX (08:20:14) :

    thanks for giving Shakespeare a new definition, I didn’t thought about that. Now that you mentioned it, maybe he is. It doesn’t bother me the least.

    just looked at couple of your comments, you seem to be full of hatreds. why is that ? Don’t think it got anything to do with the truth of “Islam”.

  70. fade says:

    Idol worshippers are the worst lot. Confused, ignorant and act crazy when they talk to statue of fat oreintal man with fat tummy full of sh*t. Obviously they need to know islam to better their sorry state.

    You did good Zul. I would have done the same. Lets not be afraid to do what god asks us to in our own country. Idol woshipper should find a different country if they don’t like our rules and religion here.

  71. XXXX says:

    livegoeson (08:32:08) : just looked at couple of your comments, you seem to be full of hatreds. why is that ?

    Now you call koranic verses as hatred. Semua ni hina nabi.

  72. livegoeson says:

    fade (08:32:25) :

    pls define “idol worshippers”.

    btw, did BAR Council declare war on Islam ? don’t get too carried away.

  73. Rissa says:

    how about non muslim studies and understand islam while muslim studies and understand christianity, buddhism, hinduism etc. This is the best solution in order to find peace and harmony in a multi-racial and multi-religions country.

  74. XXXX says:

    livegoeson (08:32:08) : Don’t think it got anything to do with the truth of “Islam”

    Why you think so much? Study koran then comment.

  75. XXXX says:

    “muslim studies and understand christianity, buddhism, hinduism etc”

    Rissa, nabi already said what to do with non believers. UMNO only dont follow now got problems faham. If they all convert then this kind problems wont be there.

  76. livegoeson says:

    XXXX (08:38:29) :

    nobody did, you did.

    that’s what u said about Shakespeare, that’s what u said about Koranic verses.

    they were all your words, not mine.

    Sorry, have fun selling your islam. cheerio.

  77. XXXX says:

    livegoeson (08:42:43) now want to run away after lying.
    e.g.1After I put verses from koran you sais is hatred. That means you say koranic verses are hatred.
    e.g.2 You say shakespeare said rose by any other name is the same, I said now you are saying nabi = shakespeare. Nabi never said Islam = Christians , Jews, Idol worshippers dll.
    You want to run away then run away but dont talk rubbish and blame others for your lack of understanding.
    Anjing also after berak will try to cover with sand-not like you simply lari.

  78. Bigjoe99 says:

    Zul has to figure out if he want to be another Ahmad Ismail. Anwar is not going to be as stupid as Pak Lah..

  79. livegoeson says:

    XXXX (08:50:15) :

    show us your islamic compassion.

    Run away ?

    Sorry, it’s a waste of time talking to intellectual blind man.

  80. livegoeson says:

    XXXX (08:50:15) :

    you completely misunderstood “what’s in a name, that which we called a rose”.

    i will leave it to you as a homework.


  81. Anonymous says:

    How could the Bar Council have insulted Islam by organising the Forum?

    By his uncalled for and unthinking action, it just appears to me that Zul had insulted his own religion which advocates for peace and harmony. I am surprised that he did not realise the problems faced by the rakyat as a result of man-made rules rather than religious rules.

    As a politician, his priority is just warped and displaced.

  82. koolgeek says:

    It’s funny how everyone suddenly wants everybody to read their holy book.

    Just keep your books to yourself.

    The reason why that BarCouncil forum was held was because somewhere somehow, people with different religious beliefs were caught in the problem of bad interaction between faiths in Malaysia. So they want to sit down and discuss.

    How about we ask these zealots to read other religions’ holy books? Plain idiot.

  83. lucia says:

    ya he wants islam but does islam wants him? so insecure over his own islam!! just a forum and he think it insulted islam! i’d rather not have this kind of people following my faith.

  84. XXXX says:

    livegoeson (08:54:11) :

    XXXX (08:50:15) :

    show us your islamic compassion. – we show you compassion and pity you when you live here, but it must be islamic rules. Nabi has shown how non muslims must be dealt with. Are you saying nabi not compassionate?

    Run away ? – Kepala hotak kau “cheerio” means to have teh tarik with you ke

    Sorry, it’s a waste of time talking to intellectual blind man – That is why I tell you to study Koran before you open your mouth and pretend like you are Professor Of Islam from Islamic University.

  85. koolgeek says:

    This world is not just about ONE religion. There are many other beliefs and just like you, they just want to stick to theirs. Only difference is, they don’t bark around asking others to read their holy books.

  86. JOHN B says:

    Encik Zulkifli,

    You are absolutely limited in your understanding of your faith and your choice in politics. Your faith in Islam has got nothing to do with PKR. It’s best you stay out of politics coz you lack the common sense to Know the differance. Here’s something for your understanding and learning.

    ” Wisdom is to know the harmony of things and the peace within to flow to its rhythm. When independant strands of the melody our different faiths meet together, they produce harmony, a new richer sound. A sound of unity and acceptance of our many differences as Malaysians. As individuals of different faiths, we have many independant strands within us. We can accept one another either through respect and tolerance or through fear and intolerance. And when we harbour this intolerance we cannot allow it to join the other strands of melody within us and in the other people of other faiths. Consequently we cut ourselves off from the harmony of things, screeching on our self-centred frustrations and accusations.”

    Grow up Zulkfli before you enter politics or you will cause dtriment and damage to the lives of others. Life is precious. It’s not refined on our part, if we mock it.

    Prof. JOHN B

  87. XXXX says:

    lucia (08:58:38) :

    ya he wants islam but does islam wants him? – he love Islam, and follow the right way

    so insecure over his own islam!! – he is not insecure. He is a lawyer.

    just a forum and he think it insulted islam! i’d rather not have this kind of people following my faith – study Islam and submit

  88. XXXX says:

    koolgeek (08:59:10) :

    This world is not just about ONE religion. – we are talking malaysia you want to go around the wo0rld now

    There are many other beliefs and just like you, they just want to stick to theirs. Only difference is, they don’t bark around asking others to read their holy books. -That is the problem of BN they should have done it after May 13 then not this problem now.

  89. Totally Unhappy says:

    He is not fit to be an MP or leader of any kind, maybe leader to gangsterism. To gain political mileage, he did what he did. Total stupidity and now trying to get out of the situation by making that childish comment, ” I choose Islam over Parti (Keadilan)”. This shows how shallow is the mind of this Zul. I am sad that we seems to have an abundance of half-wits in our midst in this Semua Boleh Land. I believe Allah and Islam being peaceful will definitely not want things to be done this way. Don’t use Islam for your lousy ends.

  90. Rissa says:

    XXXX, well, we need to respect others in order for others to respect us. Furthermore, being a muslim, Islam is my one and only trueful religion, no other god but Allah. But this is my personal and individual view and belief. For those non muslim, they, too, have their own personal and individual view and belief. We need to be humble. If we are not supposed to study and understand other religions and how are we supposed to ask others to study and understand our religions. It is Give and Take and vice versa.

  91. XXXX says:

    Totally Unhappy (09:11:10) : I believe Allah and Islam being peaceful will definitely not want things to be done this way. Don’t use Islam for your lousy ends.

    You will not talk like that if you understand Allah and Islam

  92. XXXX says:

    Rissa (09:12:24) :

    XXXX, well, we need to respect others in order for others to respect us. Furthermore, being a muslim, Islam is my one and only trueful religion, no other god but Allah. But this is my personal and individual view and belief. For those non muslim, they, too, have their own personal and individual view and belief. We need to be humble. If we are not supposed to study and understand other religions and how are we supposed to ask others to study and understand our religions. It is Give and Take and vice versa.

    It is good you are muslimin but you must learn more saudara.

  93. XXXX says:

    Rissa, if I put more more verses the non believers will say I`m hating, but that is from our Holy Book. So how?

  94. Azmin says:

    I appreciate your wisdom, Rissa. Selamat Berpuasa. 🙂

  95. peru says:

    I m confused. Quran the book was published 200 years after Muhammad and I
    was told muslim book on conducts was written by Ghazali 1000 year later.
    many times I (we) feel offended listening to muslim preachers indirectly condemming others. So we need a wise and honourable person to speak on Islam and not like this fella Zul as he using Islam as political wheel.

  96. XXXX says:

    ZUL is not bad. What you are saying is Islam is bad.

  97. Ahmed SIRaj says:

    There are much confusion and distortion here regarding the sublime teachings of Islam. For in-depth comprehension of this universal faith, check out the following links:




    Peace and blessings of Allah, the Most Gracious be upon you!

  98. amoker says:

    See, one Zul uses his religion as the excuse and this forum is skewed towards a discussion on religion instead. The power of using religion is not unknown. Look at what happen to UMNO Penang. Instead of racism, they invoke religion and everyone is jittery. Again, for a mistake of one person. How can a religion be skewed so much ( think Saiful, Najib swearing) to protect single people?

    Anyway, this is about Zul. I have given my comments to him as questions. To me, i would respect him as a Muslim in PKR. Why not? If he is overzealous, there is enough room for diversity. But we are discussing his uncouth action of storming, not his religion. And for that, I do not support his insensitve act and would not be sad if he leaves. Let him ponder that out. Be a real religious man and apologize.

  99. livegoeson says:

    there are many paths to scale Mount Everest.

    Each path with its specific details and views along the way.

    That said, the view at the summit is the same, irrespective of which path we take.

    is there a superior path leading to a different view at the summit ?

  100. azizi says:

    zul doesn’t belong to where we want the country to head. he has always been an extremist of islam… having man like him in the party or this country will create a lot of havoc and he is no different from racist ahmad. he could contribute a big plunder to the country… i think it’s not a loss for PR to lose this guy…

  101. fergie says:

    If Zul is a sincere Muslim and chooses his religion above politics, I respect him for his principles. However, the question is … is he “really” a true Muslim according to the Quran? I have absolutely no idea cos I’m an agnostic.

  102. Azmin says:

    It is no need to tell others about what our holy book said. Keep it to ourselves not unless someone likes to share with us about theirs (they have their own holy books too).

    We need to be careful when we talk to others (non muslim) about religions. Religion is a very personal and sensitive issue. It is best only discuss religion with our BEST FRIENDS but not STRANGERS. Only best friends could tolerate each other due to their friendship. Otherwise it would end up in hot argument worst still a fight could occur which it shouldn’t happen in the 1st place.

    Everyone of us is protecting our own religion and belief. Everyone has the right but we need to wisdom to choose the right partner when approaching a sensitive issue like this.

    Selamat Berpuasa. 🙂

  103. XXXX says:

    azizi (09:36:54) :

    zul doesn’t belong to where we want the country to head. he has always been an extremist of islam… having man like him in the party or this country will create a lot of havoc and he is no different from racist ahmad. he could contribute a big plunder to the country… i think it’s not a loss for PR to lose this guy…

    You really think Anwar is different ya

  104. ella-mae says:

    i’m a christian and i can understand zul’s point of view. i too would put my faith first before everything else… which is why i’d never run for public office.

    a person who chooses to run for public office must always remember he was elected into his position by the ppl who voted for him. and for this reason, the topmost thing in his public persona’s mind must always be the interest of the ppl he has made choice to represent.

    imho, zul lacked wisdom when he chose to barge into the conversion forum. he could have handled the whole thing differently.

    to say NOW that he’d rather choose islam over PKR is totaly irresponsible. zul must always remember the majority of voters in his constituency voted for him not because he is zulkifli noordin but because he represented PKR which is part of Pakatan Rakyat.


  105. XXXX says:

    Azmin (09:39:54) : Keep it to ourselves not unless someone likes to share with us about theirs (they have their own holy books too).

    Azmin oh Azmin, you know what happen to the people who were sharing their religion teachings to muslims? It was in the papers. We as muslims should not confuse the non believers like with what you have posted.

  106. Spawn says:

    Dont simply make any false accusation.
    He is very nice guy. The MSM has wrongly put bad impression on him.
    He has his own explanation.

  107. colorsmalaysian says:

    “…………….When the time comes and I (Zulkifli Nordin, the riding MP) have to choose between Islam and the party, I will still choose Islam although it would be a lost to me, in view of Pakatan Rakyat taking over the government on 16 September……………”.

    Sigh !

    Another coward has abused using religion as his shield.
    No good !
    This coward knows the way to abuse with his religion.

    Where has his conscience gone ?

    RAKYAT the Power of Nation

  108. six sense man says:

    Ronin (00:50:25) :

    Anwar’s Trojan Horse

    The Real Judas

    Mr Ronin!

    Yes, I do agree with you that BN is going on a wild goose chase in East Malaysia but you’ve got certain part wrong in what you’ve predicted.
    Let’s wait and see the conclusion.

  109. veryupset says:

    Zul is a Muslim. So..! Let him choose lah whatever he wants..!

    The debate hardly started AND he can make assumptions already..! These people ARE finding sloutions & to make people understand the way of Mulsim life…!

    Nobody condemn Islam..! Did Zul hear it….??

    The only person who condemn other races and told them to go to “Hell” was the DEVIL himself in a BN disguise….!

    Zul…. use your brains lah !!!!

    STOP using the Quran & Allah & Islam as your scapegoat…….!

  110. suresh says:


    Correct me friends if I was wrong. Are the non-Malays questioning Islam and it’s authority in Malaysia? Some of us seem to be confused from the core issues.

    The issue here is some of the clauses in the law (mind it- it’s the law of the country and not the law of Islam or syariah) that indirectly affecting non-Muslims. For example:-

    a) The non-Muslim spouse of a newly convert. The difficulties and uncertainties faced by the said spouse and children.

    b) The repercussion in the event of death when a convert who had kept his/her conversion secret from the knowledge of his non-Muslim family.

    c) The animosity and misunderstandings with Islam as a result of one- sided decision in the name of religion.

    The world is severely divided because of religion. It is quarrelsome, divisive and prejudice with on another. What we need to know if I could borrow the words of Abdul Kalam is the difference between theology and spirituality.

    The theology of each religion is unique and its purpose is to achieve spirituality. And spirituality is the same between one religion to another. We can use spirituality to bridge the differences. If we could only do that I believe a Muslim could conduct his prayers to Allah in Church or temple and a Hindu could even do his meditation in masjid.

    Anyone understands the meaning “God is one, god is love and god is all merciful?” and if so why are we adamant and fearful to discuss an issue or the law that was made by our leaders who are actually imperfect human beings?

  111. lkawa says:

    all are lies and for self interest. How can we believe anwar when he betrayed his friends so many times when he was up there. now he is talking again..

  112. wits0 says:

    Ella-mae : “i’m a christian and i can understand zul’s point of view. i too would put my faith first before everything else… which is why i’d never run for public office.”

    Dear me, I’m not a Christian and I don’t think Christians are as prone to be that dogmatic ; they are allowed to think.

    Anyway “understanding”, isn’t quite the same as, “agreeing”. His is a Creed that only superfficially resembles yours and the urge to control everything and mold ’em according to his own rigid interpretation/conception is very much more persistent by comparison.

    You can’t really mean what you say because it’s like saying that Theresa Kok shouldn’t be in politics! 😉

  113. XXXX says:

    veryupset (10:05:19) :

    Zul is a Muslim. So..! Let him choose lah whatever he wants..!

    The debate hardly started AND he can make assumptions already..! These people ARE finding sloutions & to make people understand the way of Mulsim life…!

    Nobody condemn Islam..! Did Zul hear it….??

    The only person who condemn other races and told them to go to “Hell” was the DEVIL himself in a BN disguise….!

    Zul…. use your brains lah !!!!

    STOP using the Quran & Allah & Islam as your scapegoat…….!

    You must use your brains better not Zul. Najib also said no one must question the rights of muslims to slander other religions.
    Who are you to question the rights of muslims.

  114. jungle boy says:

    If allah is so powerful and good, why not just convert all the Malaysians into Muslims! Porrahh!

  115. XXXX says:

    Your children will be muslims – if not you. Allah knows.

  116. Mohammad says:

    I was there in the gathering. It was probably the only demontration that i had joined in my life here in Malaysia.

    I felt if Zul did not succeed in the stopage of the forum that day, there would be bloodshed. Real bloodshed. I really could feel it.

    Twenty over years ago during my student days in England i went to many serious demo. But in malaysia this is my first and only. I had to do it just because I feel that is my responsibility as a muslim.

  117. Mohammad says:

    Now i can see in this forum how many malaysian are making fun of Islam. Do we make fun of your religion.

  118. sparrow says:

    H ha ha ha! Every Muslim is a ‘prophet’. No wonder the Muslims are multiplying like grass hoppers!

    Dhimmi Watch

  119. XXXX says:

    Why are you afraid of muslims. Even the next President of the US (Obama) has admitted he is a muslim:

    “Let’s not play games,” he said. “What I was suggesting — you’re absolutely right that John McCain has not talked about my Muslim faith. And you’re absolutely right that that has not come.”

  120. kkk says:

    This bum “Zoo” must have his brain under his asrseh_le. Heard also that he is a “lawyer” too. If he is one, wont be surprise we have these type of lawyers in Bolehland. These bums with this kind of mentality and stupidity no wonder our judiciary has become todate, TOTALLY unjust, not trustworthy etc…. What a shame and disgrace.
    By all means go la “Zoo”. You have the blessings of all Malaysians if you think you can be a hero for ISLAM. Quit politics and go to Middle East to defend ISLAM and fight for justice in the Palestinian Cause. We would like to see what you could do. After all, you are not fit to be in political arena with your closed small pea brain and knowing not what your objectives and reasons in politics. Again mixing politics with religion sort of scumbag. I beleive PKR can do better without stupid b_m like you. Please, pleaseeeeeeeeee resign from PKR before further damage is done in the name of the Almighty.

  121. XXXX says:

    Obama Admits Muslim Faith

  122. 200781490rhhs says:

    why are we all afraid of muslim, they are human being too they have the rights

    the next presiden obama is a muslim too

    john macain does not care about muslim

  123. congo gorilla says:

    If Obama has no balls to let those Muslinahs to stand behind him during a campaign, can Obama be the first Muslim to be the president of USA?

    In Congo jungle perhaps, and Osama can be his vice presidential running mate!

    Obamaball has no balls

  124. peru says:

    Very straight forward. Our religon and elders teach us
    1) the place where you stand come first (country, my beautiful Malaysia –
    like a mother)
    2) the people who always give you support and helps (community – like a
    3) the person who give you education and knowledge (guru’s and wiseman)
    4) the element which provide you displine and confidance (faith).

    can all off us do the same to protect our motherland? of course not Zul fella.

  125. XXXX says:

    congo gorilla (11:01:53) -If Obama has no balls to let those Muslinahs to stand behind him during a campaign,…

    That shows you know ZERO of Islam. It is a strategy called Taqiya and is allowed:

    The word “al-Taqiyya” literally means: “Concealing or disguising one’s
    beliefs, convictions, ideas, feelings, opinions, and/or strategies at a
    time of eminent danger, whether now or later in time, to save oneself from
    physical and/or mental injury.” A one-word translation would be

  126. Wake Up says:

    Dear XXXX,

    Read the following article; which may be too long for bigoted imbeciles like you who prefer to hide under the “UMNO defends muslims” sarong. Accusing other religions as Kafir just b’coz they don’t profess Islam is exactly the reasons why there’s so much of problems in the world. A pea-brained mind such as yours to suggest that Islam be taught to all students in Malaysia suggests how much of your spiritual soul is covered under the proverbial “katak di-bawah tempurung”. Everybody on this earth is free to practise whatever religion they believe in and doesn’t give you any right to shove your narrow-minded believes down Malaysian’s throats. Do soak in the following read and it may just open up your blurred eyes somewhat. Salam


    Son of Hamas Leader Turns Back on Islam and Embraces Christianity
    Tuesday, August 12, 2008
    By Jonathan Hunt

    JONATHAN HUNT: Why, after 25 years, did you change?
    MOSAB HASSAN YOUSEF: I believe that all those walls that Islam built for the last 1,400 years are not existing (sic) anymore. They don’t recognize this. They built those walls and made people ignorant because they’re afraid. They didn’t want people to discuss anything about the reality of Islam, about the big questions of Islam and they asked their followers, the Muslims, ‘Don’t ask about those certain questions.’
    But now, people have media. If the father closes the door for his daughter not to leave the house, she’s going to go behind her computer and travel the world. So people easily can get information, knowledge, searching (sic) engines, so it’s very, very available for everybody to study about Islam, about other religions. Not from the Islam point of view, but from other points of view.
    So for the next 25 years this is for sure going to make huge change in the Muslim and the Arab world.
    JONATHAN HUNT: You speak from a unique perspective, a man who grew up not just in an Islamic family but as part of an organization seen by many people around the world as an extreme force in Islam: Hamas. What is the reality of Islam? You say people don’t see the reality; What is the reality of Islam?
    MOSAB HASSAN YOUSEF: There are two facts that Muslims don’t understand … I’d say about more than 95 percent of Muslims don’t understand their own religion. It came with a much stronger language than the language that they speak so they don’t understand it … they rely only on religious people to get their knowledge about this religion.
    Second, they don’t understand anything about other religions. Christian communities live between Muslims and they’re minority and they (would) rather not to go speak out and tell people about Jesus because it’s dangerous for them.
    So, all their ideas about other religions on earth are from Islamic perspectives. So those two realities, most people don’t understand.
    If people, if Muslims, start to understand their religion — first of all, their religion — and see how awful stuff is in there, they’ll start to figure out, this can’t (be) … because most religious people focus on certain points of Islam. They have many points that they are very embarrassed to talk about.
    JONATHAN HUNT: Such as?
    MOSAB HASSAN YOUSEF: Such as Muhammad’s wives. You will never go to a mosque and hear about anyone talking about Muhammad’s wives, which is like more than 50 wives — and nobody knows (this), by the way. If you ask the majority of Muslims, they will not know this fact.
    So they’re embarrassed to talk about this, but they talk about the glory of Islam, they talk about the victory, the victories that Muhammad made. So, when people just like look at themselves and see they’re defeated, they have ignorance, they’re not educated, they’re not leading the world as they’re expected to do. They’re think they want to get back to that victory by doing the same, what Muhammad did, but disregarding (sic) the timing. They forget that this happened 1,400 years ago and it’s not going to happen again.
    JONATHAN HUNT: Do they want to destroy Christianity?
    MOSAB HASSAN YOUSEF: Islam destroyed Christianity from the beginning and Muslims don’t recognize that they stabbed Christianity (in) its heart when they said that Jesus wasn’t killed on the cross. They think that they honor him in this way.
    Basically, any Christians understand that this way, (but Muslims) tell Jesus, okay, we don’t care, you didn’t die for us. Someone sacrificed his life for you, (but) you tell him, okay, you didn’t do it!
    This is what Muslims are doing basically. But they don’t understand that this is the most important part of Christianity: the cross!
    So, they are ignorant, they don’t know what they are doing and it explains what an evil idea it is behind this Islam.
    JONATHAN HUNT: What specific event or events began to change your mind about Islam?
    MOSAB HASSAN YOUSEF: Since I was a child I started to ask very difficult questions, even my family was telling me all the time, ‘You’re a very difficult person and we were having trouble answering your questions. Why are you asking so many questions?’ This was from the beginning, to be honest with you.
    But I felt that everybody — and my father was a good example for me because he was a very honest, humble person, very nice to my mother, to us, and raised us on the principle of forgiveness, okay? I thought that everybody in Islam was like this.
    When I was 18 years old, and I was arrested by the Israelis and was in an Israeli jail under the Israeli administration, Hamas had control of its members inside the jail and I saw their torture; (they were) torturing people in a very, very bad way.
    JONATHAN HUNT: Hamas members torturing other Hamas members?
    MOSAB HASSAN YOUSEF: Hamas leaders! Hamas leaders that we see on TV now, and big leaders, responsible for torturing their own members. They didn’t torture me, but that was a shock for me, to see them torturing people: putting needles under their nails, burning their bodies. And they killed lots of them.
    JONATHAN HUNT: Why were they torturing people?
    MOSAB HASSAN YOUSEF: Because they suspected that they had relations with the Israelis and (were) co-operating with the Israeli occupation against Hamas … So hundreds of people were victims for this, and I was a witness for about a year for this torture. So that was a huge change in my life. I started to open my (eyes), but, the point (is) that I got that there are good Muslims and bad Muslims. Good Muslims, such as my father, and bad Muslims, like those Hamas members in the jail torturing people.
    So that was the beginning of opening my eyes wide.
    JONATHAN HUNT: You talk about the good Muslims, like your father, yet you still now renounce the faith of your father. Could you have not been a good Muslim?
    MOSAB HASSAN YOUSEF: Now, here’s the reality: after I studied Christianity — which I had a big misunderstanding about, because I studied about Christianity from Islam, which is, there is nothing true about Christianity when you study it from Islam, and that was the only source.
    When I studied the Bible carefully verse by verse, I made sure that that was the book of God, the word of God for sure, so I started to see things in a different way, which was difficult for me, to say Islam is wrong.
    Islam is my father. I grew up for (one) father — 22 years for that father — and another father came to me and told me, ‘I’m sorry, I’m your father.’ And I was like, ‘What are you talking about? Like, I have my own father, and it’s Islam!’ And the father of Christianity told me, ‘No, I’m your father. I was in jail, and this (Islam) is not your father.’
    So basically this is what happened. It’s not easy to believe this (Islam) is not your father anymore. So I had to study Islam again from a different point of view to figure out all the mistakes, the huge mistakes and its effects, not only on Muslims — (of) which I hated the values … I didn’t like all those traditions that make people’s lives more difficult — but its effects also on humanity. On humanity! People killing each other (in) the name of God.
    So definitely I started to figure out the problem is Islam, not the Muslims and those people — I can’t hate them because God loved them from the beginning. And God doesn’t create junk. God created good people that he loved, but they’re sick, they have the wrong idea. I don’t hate those people anymore but I feel very sorry for them and the only way for them to be changed (is) by knowing the word of God and the real way to him.
    JONATHAN HUNT: Does it worry you that in saying these things — and given your background and your words carrying extra weight — there is a danger that you will increase the difficulties, the hatred between Christians and Muslims in the world right now?
    MOSAB HASSAN YOUSEF: This could happen if a Christian person will go talk to them about the reality of Islam. They put Christians on the enemy list anyway, before you talk to them about Islam. So if you go to them and tell them, as a Christian, they will be offended immediately and they will hate you and this will definitely increase the vacuum between both religions — but what made someone like me change?
    Years ago, years ago, when I was there, God opened my eyes, my mind also, and I became a completely different person. So now, I can do this duty, while you as Christians can help me do it, but maybe you wouldn’t be able to. (Muslims) have no excuse now.
    JONATHAN HUNT: How difficult a process has this been for you to effectively walk away from your family, leave your home behind? How difficult is that?
    MOSAB HASSAN YOUSEF: Taking your skin off your bones, that’s what happened. I love my family, they love me. And my little brothers, they’re like my sons. I raised them. Basically, it was the biggest decision in my life.
    I left everything behind me, not only family. When you decide to convert to Christianity or any other religion from Islam, it’s not (enough) to just say goodbye and leave, you know? It’s not like that. You’re saying goodbye to culture, civilization, traditions, society, family, religion, God — what you thought was God for so many years! So it’s not easy. It’s very complicated. People think it’s that easy, like it doesn’t matter. Now I’m here in the U.S. and I got my freedom and it’s great, but at the same time, nothing is like family, you know. To lose your family —
    JONATHAN HUNT: Have you lost your family?
    MOSAB HASSAN YOUSEF: My family is educated and it was very difficult for them. They asked me many times, especially for the first two days, to keep my faith to myself and not go to the media and announce it.
    But for me it was a duty from God to announce his name and praise him (around) the world because my reward is going to be that he’s going to do the same for me. So I did it, basically, as a duty. I (wonder) how many people can do what I can do today? I didn’t find any.
    So, I had to be strong about that. That was very challenging. That was the most difficult decision in my life and I didn’t do it for fun. I didn’t do it for anything from this world. I did it only for one reason: I believed in it. People are suffering every day because of wrong ideas. I can help them get out of this endless circle … the track the devil (laid) for them.
    JONATHAN HUNT: Have you spoken to your father recently?
    MOSAB HASSAN YOUSEF: There is no chance to communicate with my father because he’s in jail now and there is (sic) no phones in the jail to communicate with him.
    JONATHAN HUNT: Have other members of your family told you how he’s reacted?
    MOSAB HASSAN YOUSEF: They’ve visited him from time to time. Till this moment, I don’t know his reaction exactly but I’m sure he’s very sad (over) a decision like this. But at the same time, he’s going to understand, because he knows me and he knows that I don’t make any decisions without (believing strongly in them).
    JONATHAN HUNT: Is it making his life more difficult among fellow Hamas members?
    MOSAB HASSAN YOUSEF: Definitely. My family, including my father, had to carry this cross with me. It wasn’t their choice. It was my choice, but they had to carry this cross with me and I ask God — I pray for (my father), all my brothers and my sisters here in this church, praying all the time for them — ‘God, open their eyes, their minds, to come to Christ. And bless them because they had to carry this cross with me.’
    JONATHAN HUNT: Tell me about Hamas and the way it works. Is Hamas a purely Islamic religious organization as you see it, and that’s where, in your eyes, its faults lie, or are there other parts of it which are a problem for you? Or is Hamas a good organization? What is Hamas to you?
    MOSAB HASSAN YOUSEF: If we talk about people, there are good people everywhere. Everywhere. I mean, good people that God created.
    Do they do their own things? Yes, they do their own things. I know people who support Hamas but they never got involved in terrorist attacks, for example … They follow Hamas because they love God and they think that Hamas represents God. They don’t have knowledge, they don’t know the real God and they never studied Christianity. But Hamas, as representative for Islam, it’s a big problem.
    The problem is not Hamas, the problem is not people. The root of the problem is Islam itself as an idea, as an idea. And about Hamas as an organization, of course, the Hamas leadership, including my father, they’re responsible; they’re responsible for all the violence that happened from the organization. I know they describe it as reaction to Israeli aggression, but still, they are part of it and they had to make decisions in those operations against Israel, (for) which there was the killing of many civilians.
    JONATHAN HUNT: Do you believe Israel blameless in the conflict?
    MOSAB HASSAN YOUSEF: Occupation is bad. I can’t say Israel — I’m not against any nation. We can’t say Israelis, we can’t say Palestinians, we’re talking about ideas. Israel has the right to defend itself, nobody can (argue) against this. But sometimes they use (too much) aggression against civilians. Sometimes many civilians were killed because those soldiers weren’t responsible enough, how they treat people at the checkpoints.
    My message even to the Israeli soldiers: at least treat people in a good way at the checkpoints. You don’t have to look really bad and it’s not about nations, it’s about just wrong ideas on both sides and the only way for two nations really to get out of the endless circle is to know the principles that Jesus brought to this earth: grace, love, forgiveness. Without this, they will never be able to move on, or break this endless circle.
    JONATHAN HUNT: You’ve seen your father jailed, you’ve been in prison yourself. You’ve seen Hamas carry out acts of terror against Israelis, and yet you say everybody needs to rise above that?
    MOSAB HASSAN YOUSEF: Definitely. This is the only choice. Nobody has magic power to do something for the Middle East. No one. You can ask any politician here in the U.S., you can ask any Palestinian politician or Arab politician, Israeli leaders; no one, no one can do anything. Even if they believe in peace now: they’re part of the game.
    They’re part of the trick. They can’t, even if you find a brave person, like Rabin, who was called by an Israeli to make peace with the Palestinians and give them a state, no one, even if you find a strong leader, they can’t do this. You can’t force an independent country to give another country independence. (Especially when) the other country wants to destroy it.
    Everybody is hurt. Israeli soldiers, they lost their friends. Palestinians, they lost their children, their fathers. (There are) many people in prison still, and many people were killed. Thousands. So everybody will never forget this. If they want to keep looking to the past, they will never get out of this circle. The only way to start (is just by) moving on. They were born under the occupation as Palestinians.
    The last two generations, it’s not their choice. The new generations from Israel — if we say disregarding the existence of Israel is right or wrong, what’s the guilt of those people who were born in Israel and they have no other country to go to? It’s their country now, that’s how they see it. And they are going to keep their resistance and defense against whomever. (They will) say, ‘Get out of this land!’ So the only way is for both nations to start to understand the grace, love and forgiveness of God, to be able to get out of this.
    JONATHAN HUNT: Do you believe that Israel can ever strike a peace deal with Hamas?
    MOSAB HASSAN YOUSEF: There is no chance. Is there any chance for fire to co-exist with the water? There is no chance. Hamas can play politics for 10 years, 15 years; but ask any one of Hamas’ leaders, ‘Okay, what’s going to happen after that? Are you just going to live and co-exist with Israel forever?’ The answer is going to be no … unless they want to do something against the Koran. But it’s their ideology and they can’t just say ‘We’re not going to do it.’ So there is no chance. It’s not about Israel, it’s not about Hamas: it’s about both ideologies. There is no chance.
    JONATHAN HUNT: Aren’t you terrified that somebody is going to try to kill you for saying these things — which would be approved of according to parts of the Koran?
    MOSAB HASSAN YOUSEF: They got to kill my ideas first, (and) that’s it, they’re already out. So how are they going to kill my idea? How are they going to kill the opinions that I have? … They can kill my body, but they can’t kill my soul.
    JONATHAN HUNT: You’re not afraid?
    MOSAB HASSAN YOUSEF: As a human, you know, I can be very brave now, I’m not thinking about it at this moment and I feel that God is on my side. But if this will be the challenge, I ask God to give me enough strength.
    JONATHAN HUNT: Have you been threatened?
    MOSAB HASSAN YOUSEF: No, not really. Honestly, most Muslims and Muslim leaders here in the U.S. community, European communities, they are trying to get ahold of me. They are calling my famiily, my mother, and asking for my contacts. They are telling her, ‘We want to help him.’
    JONATHAN HUNT: They think you need help?
    MOSAB HASSAN YOUSEF: Yeah, they think that Christians took advantage of me, and this is completely wrong. I’ve been a Christian for a long time before they knew, or anyone knew. I love Jesus, I followed him for many years now. It wasn’t a secret for most of the time, and this time I just did it to glorify the name of God and praise him.
    They’re not dealing with a regular Muslim. They know that I’m educated, they know that I studied, they know that I studied Islam and Christianity. When I made my decision, I didn’t make it because someone did magic on me or convinced me. It was completely my decision.
    JONATHAN HUNT: Do you miss Ramallah?
    MOSAB HASSAN YOUSEF: Definitely. You’ve been there and you know how a wonderful country (it is). Very, very beautiful. It’s a very small spot and it has everything — this is why people are fighting for that piece of land. I definitely miss Ramallah. Jereusalem. The Old City.
    JONATHAN HUNT: Do you believe you will ever be able to go back?
    MOSAB HASSAN YOUSEF: I think I belong to that land, and sooner or later I’m going to go back, no matter what. If they want to kill me, they (will) do whatever they want to do. I have a family there, they love me, they completely support me now with my decisions. Maybe they don’t want me to talk to the media but they believe that I made a decision that I completely believe in. So they support me, so I love my family. I’m going to go back there again one day. I love my town.
    JONATHAN HUNT: Do you think you’ll ever go back to a Middle East living in peace?
    MOSAB HASSAN YOUSEF: There will be a 100-person peace when Jesus comes back, when he judges everybody. His kingdom’s going to be 1,000 years and it’s going to be completely peaceful and it’s going to be the kingdom of God.
    JONATHAN HUNT: What is your basic message to any Muslim listening to this right now?
    MOSAB HASSAN YOUSEF: My message to them is, first of all, to open their minds. They were born to Muslim families — this is how they got Islam and this is just like … any other religion, like growing up (in) a Christian family, or growing up (in) a Jewish family.
    So my point is that I want those people to open their eyes, their minds, to start to understand and imagine that they weren’t born for a Muslim famiily. And use their minds.
    Why did God give them minds? Open their hearts. Read the Bible. Study their religion. I want to open the gate for them, I want them to be free. They will find a good life on earth just by following God — and they’re also going to guarantee the other life.

    Mosab Hassan Yousef is an extraordinary young man with an extraordinary story. He was born the son of one of the most influential leaders of the militant Hamas organization in the West Bank and grew up in a strict Islamic family.
    Now, at 30 years old, he attends an evangelical Christian church, Barabbas Road in San Diego, Calif. He renounced his Muslim faith, left his family behind in Ramallah and is seeking asylum in the United States.
    The story of how his life unfolded is truly amazing, whether you agree or disagree with his views. Below is a transcript on an exclusive FOX News interview with Hassan as he tells firsthand how a West Bank Muslim became a West Coast Christian
    Go to link below to view video ‘Renouncing Islam.’

  127. justice M says:

    Correction: Obama is not a Muslim-full stop.

  128. XXXX says:

    What a stupid waste of bandwith. You only can show your weakness. I will not play the same game as you and waste susan`s bandwith although I can do the same of christians who have converted to Islam.

  129. Closed Mind says:

    Muslims should not close their minds when comes to discussion over Islam. People will not convince by your reasons of sensitivity or because so and so said so that Islam cannot be discussed openly.

    If Muslims can do that, then no one is afraid of you guys. Non-Muslims are not against Islam by asking questions, they want to get to know you guys better.

  130. XXXX says:

    justice M (11:12:09) : Correction: Obama is not a Muslim-full stop.

    He already said he is -and he was born one – full stop.

  131. XXXX says:

    Obama admits he is a muslim

  132. congo gorilla says:

    Obamabot the Messiah of the world!

    Obama Messiah Part Deux

  133. penulis says:

    what did he do that is so offending?

  134. Harrison says:

    “Obama admits he is a muslim”

    I thought he was a Muslim following his daddy and later converted to Christian. That’s why he distanced from Louis Farrakan when the latter pledged allegiance for Obama during the Democratic Presidential campaign. I hate to tell you about Louis Farakkan, you’ll have nightmares….

  135. XXXX says:

    Yes you can laff, non beleivers have that funny habit of laughing at muslims.
    One joke was the reason muslims dont eat pork is because one day when he was eating it, it got stuck in his throat so he banned everyone. Very funny huh.
    But your children, if not them, their children will one day be muslims.

  136. XXXX says:

    “is because one day when he was eating it” should be “is because one day when nabi was eating it”

  137. XXXX says:

    Harrison (11:24:35) : That’s why he distanced from Louis Farrakan when the latter pledged allegiance for Obama during the Democratic Presidential campaign.

    Now is time for taqiyya. See what happens after elections

  138. xxxisashithead says:

    Personally I not sure why this warped-mind commentator called “xxxx” is a dumb-meathead. Obama admitted he is a Muslim. That was before he converts to Christiannity. Don’t nuanced about with your narrow-minded, hollow backdated news.

    I hate to argue this with you. Haha.

  139. Rissa says:

    Who bother at all whether Obama is a muslim or non muslim. Dont mix up politic with religion. Leave the religion alone!!! Don’t corrupt and and soil our religion in the name of God. As long as the leader is capable and could serve his/her country and people well, thats enough.

  140. XXXX says:

    Good. Stay away, you dont even understand the english language and do not know the meaning of past, present and present continuous tenses. If your english language understanding improves maybe…………….

  141. XXXX says:

    Rissa (11:38:38) : Who bother at all whether Obama is a muslim or non muslim. Dont mix up politic with religion

    Islam is also a political ideology.

  142. loveourworld says:

    Muslim doesn’t take pork, Hindu doesn’t take beef, Buddhist doesn’t take any meat. So………….. that’s good news, isn’t it? So that the world population won’t run out of one particular dish, meaning there will be ample of Pork, Beef & Vegetables to cater for every one of us based on our religion, kekeke.

  143. XXXX says:

    xxxisashithead (11:36:32) : That was before he converts to Christiannity. Don’t nuanced about with your narrow-minded, hollow backdated news.

    Another nonsense by a non believer. Obama is not taking of past, he would have used the word “was” or “former”. Some fools here want me to teach them english even. And they say muslims are incapable. Podah

  144. XXXX says:

    It is He who has sent His Messenger with Guidance and the Religion of Truth in order that He shows its superiority over all other religion, even if the idolaters detest it. [Al-Qur’an 9:33, 61:9]

  145. BenM says:

    This Nordin lad is not fit to represent the people of Kulim, wonder how he has the traits of UMNO. I hope his Kulim seat becomes null and void, let the good people of KUlim pick a worthy MP.

  146. wits0 says:

    Dear Harrison, Obama throws inconvenient people under the bus for his own ambition sake. This much should be obvious. He belongs to a weird church and his long time pastor was Jeremiah(Damn Amerika!)Wright, an ex muslim of whom he also threw(rather reluctantly under the bus). That Black church has a theology that God must only be on the side of the Blacks!

  147. BenM says:

    God is universal, he loves us irrespective of colour, creed, ethnicity. We human beings failed to understand that.
    Humans fail to understand that God with his immense power will know how to look after himself and his faithful – no need for us to defend GOD violently.
    If a follower wants to show they are good muslims, christians, buddhist, hindus etc they should love one another as brothers.

  148. BenM says:

    This Nordin seems like a fanatic. He said he rather choose Islam over justice (keadilan). Doesnt Islam preaches social justice? I believe it does.
    Wonder why lad then confused ?

  149. camel says:

    Obama is another prophet not in the making! Not in the USA, in some deserts in the middle-east perhaps!

    Understanding Muhammad

  150. Azmin says:

    Well said, BenM!!! another human being with wisdom.

  151. kampong girl says:

    Well! To find out why I want to leave Islam, click:Why I want to leave Islam

  152. Bola Hangus says:

    I’m religious but i do believe that some things are sacred and shouldnt be made fun of. muslims do not insult other peoples religions and i dont see why the kaffirs are increasingly becoming kurang ajar by attacking ours. If that is the case , then it is blatant provocation to stand and fight.

    xxx, i like the way you handle all the monyets here. My compliments to you. I’m a bit confused about obama though. Upon winning the democcratic nomination, why did he assert that jerusalem whould be an undivided capital of the zionist? is this a smokesceeN?

  153. Menyalak-er says:

    Hey, wits and friends, that Obamama is one of the fringe guys who attempted to use evangelical Christianity for cred. but he can’t even exegise decently. He ain’t going to pull in the numbers and the morderates despite his hype. He will be a muchkin for the likes of Putin and ilk. Plus point is Biden as his VP.
    It is wise not to link our reformasi with his ‘change’ battlecry as some of our friends are apt to do. The scenario here is vastly different, and what we are aiming for is good governance, corruption free, transparency, accountability etc.
    Only then can we sit down and discuss the ‘re-engineering’ of our Malaysian identity and soul of the nation. However, it is obvious there are some shouters here who are all out to put their agenda and provocations which have nothing to do with this discussion of the conumdrum that PKR faces.

  154. BolaHangusedHisBallsLongAgo says:

    “xxx, i like the way you handle all the monyets here. -Quote-Bola Hangus

    You must be joking really hard. Hahahahaa.

    My compliments to you. I’m a bit confused about obama though. Upon winning the democcratic nomination, why did he assert that jerusalem whould be an undivided capital of the zionist? is this a smokesceeN?” _Bola Hangus

    Most of the Americans falls for the populist rhetorics in all Presidential Campaign. President Bush Jr. reneged on many of his promises as well including his post-war on Iraq which resulted heavily on American soldiers’ casualties. Not too many complaint before he supplanted the UN Security Council veto in launching “War on Iraq”.

    Another biases of others especially Muslim countries who denounced the US invasion of Iraq as illegal should asked “is the US under the same President Bush Jr. ‘s military strike that led to the fall of the Serbian warlords’ of massacre of the Bosnians/ Chechens legal?”

    If the latter is deemed legal whilst the “war against Saddam” is deemed illegal, then I am Fareed Zakaria. Hehehe.

  155. dragon fly says:

    Yeah! This Zul is a dynamite material!

    Understanding Zul, the upcoming prophet

  156. rantingraj says:

    I just dont understand Pakistan …. its a weird country

  157. Jimmy Page says:

    There are plenty of people like Zulkifli Noordin in Keadilan. Imagine how many there are in Pas. The biggest problem we face is Pas, not Mamaks, Mahathir, or the Zulkifli Noordin’s in Keadilan. How is Anwar going to deal with Pas? Ask yourself, what is Pas’s ultimate goal? An Islamic State, or at the very least, Syariah Law in place of (British) Civil Law. Do you really think PAS will give up the fight? Not on your life, and not on the life of your children. I’d rather choose Islam over Keadilan? The people in PAS do not have to make that choice. It is as obvious as the noses on their faces.

  158. livegoeson says:

    the world and multiracial/multifaith malaysia will never have peace and harmony if we have islam defenders like XXXX insisting the kids of non-believers of islam should be indoctrinated with islamic teaching, the non-believers should be outcast etc.

    i can detect zero compassion towards people who is different from himself.

    sorry, if you want to make yourself miserable with hate everyday, that’s your choice.

    God Bless.

  159. KAPITAN says:

    ” Religion and the State should be seperated, these two institutions screw up enoug on their own, so both together is CERTAIN DEATH !!!.” –George Carlin.

    How true it is.

  160. KAPITAN says:

    sorry…. enoug =enough

  161. Jimmy Page says:

    Jeremiah Wright was a Marine in the US Army. He was in Vietnam, therefore , he is entitled to his opinion, but he is not running for President, Sen. Obama is. I suggest you know what you’re talking about before you want to educate others. The problem is, like bola hangus has surmised, you have no clue what you are talking about, and simply appear to be a person with too much time on his hands. And a person in possession of a second rate mind when it comes to politics. You know nothing about Obama except what you read in AP or Reuters. I bet you have never even visited his website, yet you want to tell Malaysians about Jeremiah Wight. He was a soldier, which is something you will never be. Where did you go to University, witso?

  162. giggle says:

    Obummer also promised to divide Israel so there could be a contiguous palestinian state i.e. Israel would be into 2 parts to make a whole palestine.
    His jerusalem comment was made before a jew crowd. The other was not before a muslim crowd.
    His “conversion” that he makes much of is only for the elections-just as his denial of Farakhan and (rev) Wright. An empty man in an empty suit. The joke is all those “liberals” lapping at the “black” anointed prez.

  163. giggle says:

    Way I figure it not one person has been effectively able to counter XXXX, `cept to make some wild remarks some with spittle shooting out of their mouth.
    I don`t much care for bola hangus, but I can only agree with him when he says “xxx, i like the way you handle “.

  164. Jimmy Page says:

    Giggle, so you would rather take McCain?
    And the mother of a whore, Palin?
    (who uses her family to spread her anti abortion message)
    You do realize the Republicans have screwed the world up
    for the last 8 years, don’t you? Weapons of Mass Destruction?
    And you know that McCain is going to start another War with Iran
    as soon as he takes office? And you want to condemn Obama ?
    Hello, friend, I am in the States, so listen to me when I tell you
    McCain is going to destroy the economy of the world, raise petrol
    prices and food prices like you would never believe. Why?
    Because of profits. Wake up and smell the coffee. Only a moron
    would hope for a Republican to win.

  165. giggle says:

    jimmy page says “He was a soldier”. – A drafted one who given the courage of his convictions did not want to go to prison.
    Going to the bummer son of hussein site for what? Waste of time, only those looking for a messiah would go there. Wits0 strikes me as one who is not looking for a messiah.
    But then Jimmy Page has problems: Led Zeppelin tour dead for now — Jimmy Page

  166. giggle says:

    “And the mother of a whore, Palin?”

    You mother must have had many abortions looks like as you are so pro abortion. And when they didn`t they got you the mongoloid.

  167. giggle says:

    “And you know that McCain is going to start another War with Iran as soon as he takes office?”

    High time

  168. giggle says:

    “Hello, friend, I am in the States, so listen to me when I tell you McCain is going to destroy the economy of the world, raise petrol prices and food prices like you would never believe. Why?”

    Shake your bootee. Gallup puts McCain 10% ahead of yo black trash messiah who dont know what religion he belongs to.
    N you are in the States. Hahaha

  169. giggle says:

    “Only a moron would hope for a Republican to win.”

    Only a mongoloid moron would be kissin dat black`s ass.

  170. giggle says:

    You do realize the Republicans have screwed the world up for the last 8 years, don’t you?

    Fool you. They did not. The economy was doing very well `cept for the 10 year cycle which is now. After that economy picks up again.
    Idiot says “world” and then talks of WMD which was only in Iraq-idiot has got his brains rolling around in his head totally loose.

  171. Jimmy Page says:

    Oi, Giggle, who is kissing whose ass?
    You fu***ng chinks really don’t know how
    to have a discussion. George W. Bush is the
    biggest ass**** on the planet and you’re talking about race.
    So **** you and your race, too.

  172. Jimmy Page says:

    Anyway you’re in Malaysia
    and guess which place has freedom ?
    TV? Movies? Art? Music? Chicks?
    Enjoy looking at tudung chicks, giggle?

  173. giggle says:

    Jimmy Page talks of race when I am not. N i still say the ass he kisses is black trash (blacks say that to each other). I`m a effin chink that`s another matter, I`m not standing for Prez like that black ass you lick.

  174. giggle says:

    Enjoy looking at tudung chicks, giggle?

    Definitely. Some look real purty

  175. Jimmy Page says:

    Game over. Enjoy astro and the same weather every day of the year.
    Personally, people like you don’t deserve PKR or Anwar, but since you
    are there, have some balls and whack some malays nicely, man.
    Then act tough in front of your PC.

  176. giggle says:

    Why should I whack malays? I see no reason to. I got good malay friends.
    But you got a good chance of getting shot. Meanwhile keep throwing those bags of cement/sand on republicans.

  177. Jimmy Page says:

    Enjoy the hot babes who pakai tudung, especially on fridays,
    I don’t think you are Giggle, but whatever.

  178. giggle says:

    You fool look at the motif. It`s giggle allriighty. Just cos I supported you on one item doesn`t mean I must support you all the time. IDIOT.

  179. Jimmy Page says:

    Really? I didn’t know your family had a retarded son !!!!

  180. livegoeson says:

    zul has made a strong stand.

    it is PKR’s turn to response, to let us all know what it actually is.

    the rakyat need to know and has the right to know.

    pls don’t be wishy-washy, especially you claim you will be boss after 916.

  181. giggle says:

    Yes she was a tough woman.
    But your`s didn`t have the abortion that you needed.

  182. jughead says:

    Agree with you that many blogger miss the point. What happen to PKR? What action PKR is going to take especially not once but twice that he consider his religion first and others are not important? If PKR does not take action, this will set a precedent for others to follow similar line or other acts just like UMNO. What happen to other races in PKR? Like Gerakan in BN?

  183. Harrison says:

    With exchanges like this, Susan is near 4 million bangs. Hhahahahaha. Congrats to all anyway. 😀

  184. tamade says:

    Nobody is insulting Islam, including the Bar Council. Rather, the foolish acts of these short-sighted flurs are an insult to Islam.

    This foolish guy should just resign and let’s have another by-election.

    Bolehland’s rakyat have been suffering for the past 50 years from the stupid acts of these goons, it’s time for a thorough overhaul in the Federal Guomen now.

  185. wits0 says:

    Harrison: “With exchanges like this, Susan is near 4 million bangs. Hhahahahaha. Congrats to all anyway. 😀 ”

    Yes, 😉

    Jimmy Page is pro Donks, Giggle is not. Neither am I. Obama is an empty suit. He’s appeasing the enemies of the US – never a good idea.

    Menyalak-er is correct to say that Obama isn’t any model for the state of politics in M’sia. Too simplistic by far, although I must say that the local liberals(including yourself) represent hope while the conservatives have ruinously screwed up the country by serving the existent elitism.

  186. Obama says:

    this Jimmy Page reminds me of Feroz Merican and also monsterball . See monsterball in Dr Hsu’s blog .

  187. Rissa says:

    Hey hey you guys Jimmy Page and giggle, STOP IT, ok? Don’t waste anymore time la arguing for nothing. We have more important task to build our nation, Sept 16. 🙂

  188. tukar tiub says:

    giggle whack the bugger somemore tear him up. The dork is a donk.

    Rissa, no worries brother there are people working on it but that shouldn`t spoil our fun. Anyway building the nation is not going to be achieved with all these jimmy pages munster ball fer oz amerikan dll 🙂
    I support anyone who rentokils that type

  189. storm62 says:

    there are 65million muslims in China, in Indonesia there are over 200million Muslims, in Malaysia we only have a few million only, why is it that our sleeping PM can divert the True Islam teachings to Islam Hadhari? who give him the rights to change the real Islamic teachings?

    this Ahmad Ismail and Zulkifli Nordin is the product of Islam Hadhari. there’s a long list just to mention a few like syed hamid, khir toyol, mohdx2 taik, beruk rembau,bocor, tutup satu mata, najis, kerismudin, bung binatangan, saiful, ezam, mamakthir etc…….

    who else in this world besides Malaysia practise Islam Hadhari?

    hello Mr. PM and UMNO don’t lie to Malaysians anymore, the Rakyat has better understanding of Islam and other religions than you.

    so please Mr. PM, if you still love Malaysia, pack your bags and go spread your so call Islam Hadhari teachings elsewhere.

  190. Pegasus says:

    That guy Zul is blinded by passion and stupidity.Nobody in Malaysia are questioning the rights of Islam and certainly the Bar Council have no intention to
    change any of that.Islam is beautiful on its own,its the people who have manipulated the religion to their benefits and interest.Its the overzealous attitude of this few blacksheeps that mar the image and brings negative ions and wrong interpretation to the people around . No one religion is greater then the other, as all religion teaches good faith to everyone ,its how it is taught to and interpreted. Zul should be in Pakistan or better still Afghanistan ,as then he will be home , there is no place for such a low mentality thinking individual in Malaysian politics, but the sad part is ,we have abundance of them . May the right thinking Malaysian stands up and makes the right decisions in getting the nation back on the track.

  191. wits0 says:

    Hey, I almost miss this: “He was a soldier, which is something you will never be. Where did you go to University, witso?” – Jimmy Paige.

    So was Timothy James McVeigh who bombed the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City.

    As for your pal ,BolaHangus, he’s a local fanatic bordering on insanity and beyond reasoning. And you sure understand that sort!

  192. terra firmer says:

    Jimmy page bola hangus munster live in Walter Mitty world of being great warriors. But when the zhongdui come, the same runts who are not grunts will be busy looking for sarongs and squealing like stuck pigs and selling out their neighbors.

  193. monsterballess says:

    giggle whack the bugger somemore tear him up. The dork is a donk.

    the guy is an asshole we are with you giggle . couldn’t stand him talking cock and bullshit ! really he sounds like monsterball .when he posts you don’t see monsterball postin .

  194. godam says:

    Huh…banyak juga UMNO/BN trooper dalam web ni menghasut supaya pecah PR…

  195. Menyalak-er says:

    Wits0: “… he’s a local fanatic bordering on insanity and beyond reasoning.” (21:53). Yes, osama b. laden and timothy mcveigh types who wring out one single verse, to make war on their neighbors.
    Otoh, i don’t think that the zul blur is in this category – i noticed that dsai wanted a closed door discussion on this bar thingy, becos’ he understood that the ‘populace’ was not ready for this ‘open’ sort of thing.
    Immature leaders, lead immature nation – not meaning the majority here, but those who have a knee jerk response as soon a they hear of something that just veers into their conciousness.
    I too personally felt that this was not an appropiate time to test the doors of hell, lest it opens to swallow us whole. Not because of fear of consequences, but the realization that some are still immature in both faith and wisdom and to avoid carnage to the greater cause.
    Could i venture to ask whether the timing of this ‘forum’ (or rather nonevent), appropos? Who’s the opportunist who gained most from this snafu? Certainly not that blunt tool zul…, nor PKR, nor dsai.
    Is there any hidden hand in this ‘prodding’ to get us all into that herd mentality of “Reformasi without borders”?

  196. Solo Miss says:

    Dear All,

    Islam should not be the only religion taught in schools. All religions should be taught so that every Malaysian for Malaysia understands the freedom of religion, speech and equality in humanity.

    I do not preach that I am holier than thou; but, come on I personally think that even GOD wants EQUALITY & not to discriminate the races so much so the rich gets richers( Bee Ann & amno ); a particular race gets all and the the other races are marginalized. GOD definitely treats all equal; why then are humans, especially in Malaysia, so adamant on special privileges, special rights, ketuanan and expect citizens of same stature to “kow tow” to them.

    I believe in DSAI’s equality principle for all. Compromise after 50 years has shown that 8 March 2008 is just the beginning. The next election will be even better, the Parliament can be filled with more young MPs who do not believe in the “Malaysia Caste System” politics of amno/Bee Ann.

    Just learn how to live peacefully, respecting all irrespective of race, creed, colour, religion and mother tongue. Do not be greedy and want the whole cake for yourselves in the name of religion, ketuanan, special privileges and british negligence and discord.

    The system will never be the same forever. Russia broke up. So did Germany. Political systems change every 100 years. Just refer to history you MAD ISMAIL. The so called Constitution can change; be changed or even amended sooner, later or in the future.

    It is a known fact that the non malays decide the polls.

    Think about it.

    GOD bless all those who want to live in harmony, mutually respecting all, irrespective of their born differences. No one knows that he/she will be born a malay, indian,chinese,kadazan,murut,iban,portuguese etc.

    Think…..Think harder…..do we love this nation so much to destroy it over the”DIVIDE & RULE” methods used by irresponsible idiots like MAD ISMAIL, Zul “kULIM”, amno penang who back mad ismail etc.

    Come on – Be Rational & do not play up the racial sentiments; k toyo saying may 13; mad ismail saying may 13;……..do you think the other races are toys & puppets without any rights…..only GOD has given rights to these nuckle pea brains of k toyo, mad ismail & zul kulim( choosing religion over party – he has failed in his religious duty to serve the people who voted him; the party that gave him the opportunity and the trust malaysians gave to PR on 8 march!!!!!!

  197. wits0 says:

    Menyalak-er : “Otoh, i don’t think that the zul blur is in this category”

    No, he’s more calculating and therefore potentially more harmful. He sensed that the long indoctrinated ethos from umno’s machination for half a century favors his usage of religion as a means of enhancing his own prestige and position with his immature co-religionists. This “forum” was not the only or first one disrupted by such fundamentalists. As a lawyer he should have more brain than to do what he did. If someone less educated led the protest, then, there is more cause to understand. He did PKR a disservice and dsai should also take note of that.

  198. orange says:

    shallow, immature, superficial, reactive and pure bodoh – OUT!

  199. goodness says:

    The more I read XXXX the more I want to run from Islam. So barbaric.. he seems like he want to eat all non Islam fellas. And the superiority he had on his oppinion as if he is god. Yes he can see the future, oh yes he is right.. who cares.

  200. Menyalak-er says:

    Wits0: “… usage of religion to enhancing his own prestige and position…” (23:56). That i agree with. The point is whether he was the ‘hatchet’ man to garner in this segment of the ‘immature’? The lines here are blurred and i do wish that this doesn’t happen again…

  201. DrQ says:

    Peace be upon you …

    This one goes out to xxxx.

    I read all your comments… i would like to ask u a few questions

    1. When u quote your sources why do you stop at 2 verses… tell the people reading this blog about the rest of the verses that came with it. I m sure u know the Quran wasnt revealed in one big chunk… it came in bits and pieces and the arrangement u see in the Quran is not one chapter one story… The teaching is all over the Quran spread out ..so if u want to quote pls do it properly and not only take 2 verses or one verse. Also when u do quote do tell when and why that particular ayat was revealed THE HISTORY BEHIND IT…. if u dont know this i suggest you stop quoting because you are not helping at all… becareful of what you say and how you say it. You have single handedly manage to not only confuse the people reading this blog Muslim or non muslim about Islam but you have manage to insult and degrade the teachings of Rasullullah s.a.w.

    2. You want to stand and defend Islam defend it against ppl who declare war on it not this ppl in this blog. Oh telling a kafir will burn in hell and then saying that one of the bloggers will… U r walking on very thin ice of shrik.. Only Allah decides who goes where and when … u never know that blogger might become a better muslim than you.. You think you know who goes heaven and hell… and can point them out? interesting.

    3. You cant force Islam on to ppl… u my dear brother in one post have done so and a fellow non muslim has pointed it out …and wat do you do you lash out at him.. not good… You think how you approach in defending Islam is correct.. Did u read about how Rasullulah s.a.w approached the different levels of people during his time. Its very interesting… Nothing like what u have done…

    4. I admire the fact u are so passionate about islam but in my humble and honest opinion u r not ready to talk to people about it… u may have the knowledge but you dont have the skills to convey an du certainly dont have the patience. Do you have the patience?

    5. Last one …i rather talk to you in person and point all this out because in Islam u dont make someoens demeanor public but since that is not possible i m sorry i had no choice but u r anonymous… so its not too bad… oh yes last one READ WHAT GOODNESS HAS SAID..better still i will cut and paste :

    goodness (00:06:18) :

    The more I read XXXX the more I want to run from Islam. So barbaric.. he seems like he want to eat all non Islam fellas. And the superiority he had on his oppinion as if he is god. Yes he can see the future, oh yes he is right.. who cares.

    Was this what you were trying to achieve my brother…listen to the comments they made and dont lash out. It will only tarnish your strong love for Islam.. do it right. I await your comment. Allah bless you.

    Thank you for reading.

  202. monsterballess says:

    This joker XXXX is a self proclaimed Islamic walking encyclopedia who profess to know all . He will answer all quetions thrown at him and can be very irritating sometimes . I have seen him posting in one of the articles in Malaysia Today , also in regards to Islam .Looking into my files to trace his username in MT. Suggest to get him disappear from this blog before he starts polluting it .

  203. xxxx says:

    You find me irritating because I disturb your complacency that`s good. I have never posted at MT, would have to be someone with same nic but was not me.

    For monsterballess and DrQ especially and others willing to learn more ,here is more irritation, try not to develop a rash:
    MggPillai on RPK site-

    Several articles and discussions question the fundamental bases of Malaysia, the role of Islam, and other politically contentious issues that by law are declared seditious. One questioned the right of Muslims preachers to attack other religions in their Friday prayers. But instead of attacking him and his website openly, it uses newspapers and religious leaders to do the mudslinging. Dato’ Seri Najib kicked the ball first to insist to insist none should openly debate if Muslims could slander the followers of other religions, and promised to investigate the site, “Malaysia Today”.

    But what RPK complains of is true. Non-Malays living in the vicinity of mosques in Kuala Lumpur hear this call to arms against the non-Muslims through high-pitches megaphones.
    DrQ seems to say that it we should do it in such a way that non muslims do not understand what we are REALLY up to. Najib and many muslims disagree.
    He patronises me my using the word “passionate” follows that up with “buts” and comes out trying to look squeaky clean. That is his way. Others have theirs.

  204. Real Deal says:

    I do not see XXXX as a joker. Some want him banned as their complacency is shaken. Well, I say about time good and maybe he will post more so the complacent ones in their hunky dory worlds are wakened up – even if it be rudely.

    These excerpts from what MggPillai wrote on 2004-12-17:

    Several articles and discussions question the fundamental bases of Malaysia, the role of Islam, and other politically contentious issues that by law are declared seditious. One questioned the right of Muslims preachers to attack other religions in their Friday prayers. But instead of attacking him and his website openly, it uses newspapers and religious leaders to do the mudslinging.

    Dato’ Seri Najib kicked the ball first to insist to insist none should openly debate if Muslims could slander the followers of other religions, and promised to investigate the site,

    But what RPK complains of is true. Non-Malays living in the vicinity of mosques in Kuala Lumpur hear this call to arms against the non-Muslims through high-pitches megaphones often enough.
    If that can be “tolerated” on nearly basis there is no reason to ban XXXX. Nothing like a shock to awake the brain dead.

  205. Real Deal says:

    Last sentence should be:

    If that can be “tolerated” on nearly DAILY basis there is no reason to ban XXXX. Nothing like a shock to awake the brain dead.

  206. Real Deal says:

    You cant force Islam on to ppl…DrQ

    Who said so? Pakistan is a very good example of success in that.

  207. livegoeson says:

    yes, do not ban XXXX or the likes.

    let them bared themselves so that we know.

    And someone said about indoctrination.

    Is faith about indoctrination ?

    Genuine faith grows from within, not via force from outside.

  208. badawi`s rocks says:

    goodness (00:06:18) : The more I read XXXX the more I want to run from Islam. So barbaric.. he seems like he want to eat all non Islam fellas.

    He put very little and you are shivering. Wait till you read the whole of it.

  209. Bola Hangus says:

    terra firmir, whe zongdui comes, whatever the fark that is. you will be the stuck pig squealing.

  210. Jambu says:

    Why just don’t we talk about christian instead? or hindu? why do they bow to a stone? is that not stupid? or whys do bible is in english? it should be in its original text? if it is in english, then it is not original. right?

    So how’s that sound everyone? feel good if others talk bout others religion? So do you feel like protecting your religion? that goes to muslim.

    Susan, i believe you are over this time. Stupid Susan

  211. BenM says:

    Dear Jambu,

    Like I said earlier, GOD can protect himself and his faithful. There are lots of people who question the beliefs of Christians, Hindus , Buddist and of course Muslims, but the only way to educate them is our way of life. I am sure u have heard the saying ‘ Leadership by example’.

    You must also understand that in this world you cant go around threatening an opinion or suggestion that you may not like. The best way is to discuss and agree to disagree.

    Violent screams takes us nowhere, hasnt history told us that yet.
    Firstly the govt and the MSM gave a false picture of the Bar Council forum, secondly people who are not very inteligent behaved in uncivilised manner.

    I defend their right to hold the rally peacefully, but to barge into the forum and say unintelligent things are a No-No.

    Think about it, is this how to handle a problem in life.

  212. hindoo says:

    Sounds good.
    We know muslims more clever when we see them bow to stone 5 times every day many thousand miles away in desert.

  213. wits0 says:

    BenM: “Think about it, is this how to handle a problem in life.”

    The Keyword is, of course, “THINK”. Some people can’t and/or won’t. They can lose that ability without realizing.

  214. BenM says:

    Dear Hindoo,

    Lets not make fun of each others beliefs, by doing this it is not doing any good us. In retaliation Jambu is going to say something to hurt you. Is this really necessary.

    Sometimes you must understand that, if a brother doesnt know, we educate him, if he still persist on insulting then, we just leave him alone.

    We should be the mature one. By stooping to their level we are insulting ourselves and our own religion. Again all religion teaches good, are we reflecting it when we are being put to test?

  215. For Pakatan's Govt. says:

    Here is some professional help from the professionals in this field.

    What is Pathological Narcissism?

    Primary Narcissism, in psychology is a defense mechanism, common in the formative years (6 months to 6 years old). It is intended to shield the infant and toddler from the inevitable hurt and fears involved in the individuation-separation phase of personal development.

    Secondary or pathological narcissism is a pattern of thinking and behaving in adolescence and adulthood, which involves infatuation and obsession with one’s self to the exclusion of others. It manifests in the chronic pursuit of personal gratification and attention (narcissistic supply), in social dominance and personal ambition, bragging, insensitivity to others, lack of empathy and/or excessive dependence on others to meet his/her responsibilities in daily living and thinking. Pathological narcissism is at the core of the narcissistic personality disorder.

    The term narcissism was first used in relation to human psychology by Sigmund Freud after the figure of Narcissus in Greek mythology. Narcissus was a handsome Greek youth who rejected the desperate advances of the nymph Echo. As a punishment, he was doomed to fall in love with his own reflection in a pool of water. Unable to consummate his love, Narcissus pined away and changed into the flower that bears his name, the narcissus.

    Other major psychiatrists who contributed to the theory are Melanie Klein, Karen Horney, Heinz Kohut, Otto F. Kernberg, Theodore Millon, Elsa F. Ronningstam, John Gunderson, Robert Hare, and Stephen M. Johnson.

    Origins of pathological narcissism

    Whether pathological narcissism are the results of genetic programming (see Jose Lopez, Anthony Bemis and others) or of dysfunctional families and faulty upbringing or of anomic societies and disruptive socialisation processes – is still an unresolved debate. The scarcity of scientific research, the fuzziness of the diagnostic criteria and the differential diagnoses make it unlikely that this will be settled soon one way or the other.

    Certain medical conditions can activate the narcissistic defense mechanism. Chronic ailments are likely to lead to the emergence of narcissistic traits or a narcissistic personality style. Traumas (such as brain injuries) have been known to induce states of mind akin to full-blown personality disorders.

    Such “narcissism”, though, is reversible and tends to be ameliorated or disappear altogether when the underlying medical problem does.
    Psychoanalysis teaches that we are all narcissistic at an early stage of our lives. As infants and toddlers we all feel that we are the centre of the Universe, the most important, omnipotent and omniscient beings. At that phase of our development, we perceive our parents as mythical figures, immortal and awesomely powerful but there solely to cater to our needs, to protect and nourish us. Both Self and others are viewed immaturely, as idealisations. This, in the psychodynamic models, is called the phase of “primary” narcissism.

    Inevitably, the inexorable conflicts of life lead to disillusionment. If this process is abrupt, inconsistent, unpredictable, capricious, arbitrary and intense, then the injuries sustained by the infant’s self-esteem are severe and often irreversible. Moreover, if the empathic crucial support of our caretakers (the Primary Objects, e.g., the parents) is absent, our sense of self-worth and self-esteem in adulthood tends to fluctuate between over-valuation (idealisation) and devaluation of both Self and others. Narcissistic adults are widely thought to be the result of bitter disappointment, of radical disillusionment in the significant others in their infancy. Healthy adults realistically accept their self-limitations and successfully cope with disappointments, setbacks, failures, criticism and disillusionment. Their self-esteem and sense of self-worth are self-regulated and constant and positive, not substantially affected by outside events.

    Narcissistic regression and the formation of secondary narcissism

    Research shows that when an individual (at any age) encounters an insurmountable obstacle to his or her orderly progression from one stage of personal development to another, he or she regresses to his infantile-narcissistic phase rather than circumvent the hindrance (Gunderson-Ronningstam, 1996).

    While in regression, the person displays childish, immature behaviors. He feels that he is omnipotent, and misjudges his power and that of his opposition. He underestimates challenges facing him and pretends to be “Mr. Know-All”. His sensitivity to the needs and emotions of others and his ability to empathise with them deteriorate sharply. He becomes intolerably haughty and arrogant, with sadistic and paranoid tendencies. Above all, he then seeks unconditional admiration, even when he does not deserve it. He is preoccupied with fantastic, magical thinking and daydreams. In this mode he tends to exploit others, to envy them, and to be explosive.

    The main function of such reactive and transient secondary narcissism is to encourage the individual to engage in magical thinking, to wish the problem away or to enchant it or to tackle and overcome it from a position of omnipotence.

    A personality disorder arises only when repeated attacks on the obstacle continue to fail — especially if this recurrent failure happens during the formative stages (0-6 years of age). The contrast between the fantastic world (temporarily) occupied by the individual and the real world in which he keeps being frustrated (the grandiosity gap) is too acute to countenance for long. The dissonance gives rise to the unconscious “decision” to go on living in the world of fantasy, grandiosity and entitlement.

    ( Beware, you might be giving yourself way with the way you project yourself or want yourself projected to public.)

  216. hindoo says:

    He cannot say anything to hurt me. Don worry. Already I agreed he is cleverer. So what can he hurt. He can call Lord Siva a*sehole, so what. Lord Siva can take care of himself.

  217. hindoo says:

    Err that is for BenM

  218. hindoo says:

    Actually it is good if he curses and swears, like someone posted it is their right, Najib already said is ok for them to do it.

  219. BenM says:


    Nice one bro, lets take it easy.

  220. hindoo says:

    Maybe fasting month they have to do more. But is ok with me. The Gods can take care of themself, they dont need me to do their fighting. They got their own powers.

  221. BenM says:

    Yep thats right!

    We will do good, if others fail, we can try to help, but if they CHOOSE to fail we cant do much about it.

  222. hindoo says:

    Right on!!

  223. Jambu says:

    Yes that’s right, no wonder hidoo gods and budhist gods were left outside for raining. Even their gods cannot chase a fly.

    Stupid Moron..talk about sensitivity. Yeah right!!!

  224. tukar tiub says:

    heehee ini jambu gila now he says allah chases flies.
    Haha nanti itu syed hamid albar tangkap lu oooo you kena chase flies in kamunting ler

  225. tukar tiub says:

    Since they are devoid of logic, what if, just what if their understanding of Islam is false? I see that these Muslims (which means almost 100% of Malays and a vast majority of Muslims around the world) will forever be trouble-causers around the world. Before that they will be in constant turmoil, anger and frustration.

    When you try to do anything by denying logic and common sense, you WILL fail. You WILL fail miserably. That is why for a 1,000 years the Muslims have been failing miserably. They have denied using logic and common sense.

  226. BenM says:

    Dear Jambu,

    All that you say is not helping you at all. Think how will u and your religion be perceived. It will be negative. I believe u are a good man, a true Islam. Its your emotions are taking the better of you.

    We are all children of GOD.

  227. BenM says:


    ISLAM is peace = salam, ISLAm is justice = Keadilan, ISLAM is love = Kasih saying.

    Am I right? I believe so.

    Then why all the hatred.

  228. DrQ says:

    Good day all..

    Real Deal (06:01:35) :
    You cant force Islam on to ppl…DrQ
    Who said so? Pakistan is a very good example of success in that.
    ( Is it islamic that is my question ? )

    Why do you even write back… i told u before you post anything here refer to all your sources. I have a challenge for you if u r up for it. Show me where in the Quran and hadeeth it says u can force Islam onto others and pls dont take it out of context. If u wanna quote the Quran and hadeeth , quote and then tell why that verse/s was revealed.. dude i m telling u this country and its 50yrs of governing has twisted Islam.

    For Pakatan’s Govt. (11:16:30) : Intersting read… thanx


    Owh and just to set the record straight we dont bow down to the Kaabah ( that would be the black silk drapped square brick stonned structure thousands of miles away in Macca ). Its just a focal point. Previously the focal point was in Masjidil Al Aksar in Juressalam.. and back then ppl use to pray in that direction and not to the brick structure called a mosque.

  229. Menyalak-er says:

    Well tukar tiub, ‘rationalism’ is not the same as being rational; and ‘logic’ doesn’t mean reason.
    That is why the world’s has always been in a mess, not only for the Muslims but also in other religions, who don’t understand the message.
    For example, some claim that the Bible is written only in Inggeris – no the OT was written in Hebrew and the NT written in Greek; and there are some 200+ translations.

  230. james chua says:


    the world has changed, and you guys should all lighten up a little bit eh?

    Zul can do what he likes as an individual, but as a representative of a party there are some limitations. But then again, Zul is only in PKR because he is not in UMNO, so better it is he leaves PKR and go to UMNO where the politics of religion and race will be suited to him.

    Anyway, in times like this, I ask you all, have you been to the other side? Do you know what it is like to really party? Have fun? Stop messing with each other and enjoy life to the fullest? Party, party and have fun?

    This is it: Hope you enjoy and my friends who knows me knows that this is real, we been there!

  231. Solo Miss says:

    Dear All,

    My point exactly……when one cannot compromise, be tolerant and exhibit mutual respect for each citizen( who have equal rights- atleast in GOD’s eyes but not in ketuananland), then you have guys critizing the gods of each other…. wonder whether the gods are hearing & reading this….lightning may strike and there goes the Taliban who destroyed the Buddhist religious site in the hills; lightning striked US attacked Iraq; lightning striked Lebanon was hit by Israel; and the list goes on.

    I wish lightning will strike ketuananland and I will be granted three wishes:

    1. Wish that Malaysia will be for all Malaysians;
    2. Wish that there be no special privileges and racial discrimination – i was born in malaysia just like a malay born at the same time & date;
    3. Peace, mutual respect, harmony and eternal prosperity for Malaysia.

    That is what i wish for. Not being unrational, greedy, corrupt, discriminative and idiotic as mad ismail, zul kulim and the rest who support them. GOD MADE EVERY HUMAN BEING EQUAL. BUT IN KETUANANLAND ONE RACE WANTS TO BE ABOVE GOD.

    GET A LIFE…….if do not know how ask the chinese, indians and malays who fought the communists, japanese and even the british to bring independence for this nation. The malays did not fight alone; it was a struggle of the various races in malaya then.

    Mad ismail….read the history first….not the editted history books of Ministry of Education…..ask Tan Sri Khoo Kay Khim.

    God bless all the good……belasah all the bad..hahahahahaha

  232. Azmin says:

    Ismail was a weak student who was poor in his studies, so no wonder la.

  233. Bola Hangus says:

    solo miss, will lightning strike sepetland who stole the lands from tibetans?

  234. Fair Malaysian says:

    This is a comment I tried posting in his (Zulkifli Nordin’s) blog but did not appear, so I assume he does not wish to wish to publish it. Anyway, that is his blog, and that is his choice. The full comment:


    It is understandable that a person without any legal background to claim that the Bar Council forum had taken issues against Islam.

    Even before that eventful day, it has been highlighted by the Bar Council many times that it does not question the status and importance of Islam as enshrined in the Constitution. What has been written into the Constitution on the position of Islam is sacrosanct. You as a lawyer would/should have known this.

    The instant problem and predicament deals with issues related to Non-Muslim parties affected by the conversion (say, a spouse) of one party to Islam. It has caused a great deal of confusion and pain and the Government of the day has been dragging its feet, hiding its face each time a problem of this nature crops up.

    I believed it was a novel idea when the Bar Council arranged for this forum, with both Muslims and Non-Muslims sharing their views as to how to resolve this thorny issue which has caused messy strains among the religious communities. It was an open forum and even those who were there to disrupt it were invited to voice their views.

    This problem has been dragging along for quite some time and could it be the reason that we continue to fight over this issue till the end of the world that some decided to disrupt it.

    Let me end this piece with this for your thought. From the days of his sacking, solitary confinement and his resurrection, I have been a consistent support of Anwar Ibrahim. In this, my beliefs or views or opinions on him have never abated. DSAI is recognised throughout the world, particularly in the Islamic/Muslim world for his credentials on Islam. Do you suppose that, as alleged by some quarters, as a leader he would sell-off the rights of Muslims? I do not for one second believe that. Do you? Your action seems to squarely stand against the very credentials of DSAI as you belong to the party where he is de facto leader.

    It has been convenient of you to say that you are a Muslim first above anything else. Please make sure that when you confront your Non-Muslim constituents, tell them of what you stand for and it would be in their right to accept you as such.

    Islam is a beautiful religion with a great Prophet to its credit. I honestly believe that if we Non-Muslims had supposedly appealed to him of our predicament, he would have given us a fair hearing because, above all, he was recognised for his humanitarian understanding towards those of other faiths.

    Peace be with you Sir.

  235. ktteokt says:

    An idiot who cannot distinguish between right and wrong should not have been an MP in the first place!

  236. james chua says:


    I can tell you that we have plenty of idiots that were MP’s in the Malaysian Parlianment since 1970’s – the one thing Malaysia excels is in having idiots for MPs, and they all wear blue

  237. roy selvan says:

    To,me its simple. Dont mix religion with Politics.Any politician who uses his religion to gain milage is a traitor to his religion. But a good clean politician brings milage to his religion and praises by the public.There was and were a hand full of such politicians in this world and Gandhi was one of them.

    So the tree shall be known by its fruits……….We shall see………..

  238. mohzak says:

    Zul Noordin should not be an MP…..Why the hell he went to New Zealand to study law?..NZ is a kafir land!..is Islam a pretty girl that needed to be defended?….and he call himself a lawyer?… Zul.u better to Iraq and fight American army!…Maybe u will get your self 72 virgins……

  239. Bola Hangus says:

    gandi failed miserably, not only was he murdered by his own, his beloved india is split into 3.. “an eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind”. Yeah, hes the one whos blind to see the realities of the world we inhabit…

  240. roy selvan says:

    Christian Prophet and Muslim Prophet died unnaturaldeath and failed in the eyes their own men but not God. But anyway why should i raise this to a racist.!!!!Everyknows through your comments on all the blogs.

  241. laffin says:

    This land will never be turn to sepetland. jambu

    The best laugh I had was when a Malay “Tuan” Minister went crawling to China to apologize for a malay woman made to squat naked by malay police in a malay police station.
    The 2nd best laugh was when the malay “Tuans” elected a chinese mix to be PM to replace an Indian mix “Tuan”.

  242. laffin says:

    Since Tun Razak`s time it has been a practse for Malay Tuans to make pilgrimages to China and pay obeisance to their Chinese masters before every GE.
    For malay “Tuans” the Chinese Emperor is still alive.

  243. ktteokt says:

    This idiot is simply going for “the best of both worlds”. He wants to be in Keadilan because it can secure him his MP status but he wants to be an Islamic fanatic to make him outstanding in the eyes of the Malays! He forgot the political party he is in believes in “rakyat power”, not “Islamic power or Malay Power”!

  244. Bola Hangus says:

    selvan, when did Muhammad die an unnatural death and failed his people? Are you confusing him with mohandas, indra and rajiv?besides. the centuries after the Prophets death his religion spread throughout the area and even conquered many part s of europe, roman empire and your beloved india.

    laffin, as during the time of malacca, we practise close friendsip with china and recognized chinese their right in their own land. The friendship was so close that parameswara was invited to the court of the emperor and gifts wre given to him including military protection. He didnt go there cos they were sepet, but because they once wre the superpower of the known world. That howeever doenst mean that the unwanted of their later societies can just come here and takeover and turn this country into china. Didnt your communist grandpa learn his lesson during the emergency?

  245. AfynnZyral says:

    What I don’t understand is these people’s over-the-top reactions. I mean, it’s just a forum. If only they had acted rationally… with their brains intact… They’d realise that there IS a problem there. The article exists… n it does create problems over the courts’ jurisdictions and thus creating problems in handling cases.

    Like I said, if only these people had acted rationally.

    What I see of the Bar is their want of solution. Or at least some discourse in working towards that. So they organised a forum… invited relevant people including reps from the Muslims to give insights. And that’s just that. What’s the big deal?

    I’m ashamed that those people calling themselves righteous, pious Muslims stormed in and hurled insults and stuff to those at the forum. That’s not the way of us Muslims. In fact, I don’t think those kinda acts are propounded by any beliefs. If you look at Islamic history, those are what the kafirs did. While the Muslims postulate intellectual debates and discourses, musyawarah etc. It’s not the way of us Muslims to act like that. Prophet Muhammad PBUH taught us to be civilised, soft-sopken and in regards of arguments: to argue intellectually in the most civilised manner.

    I mean, who’d take you seriously if you act like monkeys?

    Us people do have brains. We know when something’s wrong. So stop giving bullshits for reasons.

  246. machitam says:

    Afynnzyral “…I’m ashamed that those people calling themselves righteous, pious Muslims stormed in and hurled insults and stuff to those at the forum.”

    who are those people calling themself righteous, pious muslim?

    The issue is about a conflict between two “administration”. i don’t think it is a conflict between Islam and others!

    i’m saying this because we should not have the notion or misconstrued what happened was Islamic syariah is wrong. why can’t we sit down and discuss issue of concern of both party in a more civilised manner?

  247. LIFE says:

    RELIGION!!!! With or Without Religion, won’t make a person wiser or smarter or otherwise. It is all common sense and wisdom. Just take a look at those terrorists, they do have religion , but HIJACK AND BOMB BOMB BOMB here and there. What have they contributed to the human race with their tiny brains? but hands covered with blood and believing that they could go Heaven with bloody hands. BULL!!!

  248. AfynnZyral says:

    Machitam “who are those people calling themself righteous, pious muslim?”

    those who stormed in of course. The ones who hurled insults at the organiser… the ones demanding, in a very rude and uncivilised manner I might add, the premature end of the intellectual discourse.

    those self-proclaimed pious, righteous Muslims fighting for Islam.

    I personally think they’re short-sighted extremists.

    Like I said… had they acted rationally… they’d realise it’s not about Islam. Its about problems implicit in the judicial system.

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