Photo from blog.wired.com removed on 30 January 2009 upon image owner’s request.

Aiyoo, better be careful-lah, those of you who are abit frisky and doing ‘you know what’ with your Malay/Muslim boyfriend(s)/girlfriend(s).

According to the STAR, some seminar in Kuala Lumpur wants non-Muslims found committing khalwat (close proximity) with Muslims to also be punished, but in civil courts.

The thing that sets me thinking about this is often I see the ones get reprimanded are students and youths, who are nabbed in the park, in low cost flats or some dingy outlets. Unfortunately, these guys and girls have little money to spend or they’ll book a hotel room or go overseas for their rendevous.

Not that I support punishing people for being close (in proximity or otherwise), but I really wish to see some big fish also pay the price for their so-called “immorality”. Unfortunately, these people have lots of money and can pay for privacy, and perhaps even “coffee-money” to those officials in duty. They carry out their rendevous in five star hotels and they are assured of non-intereference by just using the “do not disturb” sign.

I wonder what the Attorney General will say about this “brilliant” idea?

121 responses »

  1. mitosblog says:

    If you want to get uncaught, stay in 5 star hotel which will cost RM500 per night. If you stay in hotel less than that there are always some chance to get caught. But why 5 star? Because you get the full protection and they respect your privacy. That’s how it works in Malaysia.

  2. malayamuda says:

    pay for privacy

    or else you will be caught with your pants down like chua soi lek

  3. I agree with mitosblog🙂
    Mmm.. better get marriage rather than spreading HIV to Malaysian🙂
    Am I right? We are Malaysian and not like Hollywood!
    Even our culture is not same at all with Western culture!
    We have appetite or lust, and we need to marrriage in order to face the needs of appetiute!
    I agree…. Is that better?

  4. kesava says:

    Farish A. Noor

    I am having a tough time writing this particular article as I am absolutely consumed by anger at the moment. In fact, I am livid as I have never been for such a long time.
    [ ]
    So this, apparently, is what the great minds of IKIM and the religious departments have been cooking up and intending to serve to us, the Malaysian public, all along. While Muslims are angry about the portrayal of Islam and Muslims in the film ‘Fitna’ by the right-wing Dutch politician Geert Wilders, one is left with the question: As long as Muslim leaders and intellectuals remain stuck in their morass of outdated conservative thinking, would it not remain the case that Islam is seen as a religious of violence? How, pray tell, can scholars like me defend the image of Islam and Muslims when Muslim governments like ours allows such outlandish and dangerous ideas to spread, and harbour such proponents of conservative-fundamentalist Islam in the very same institutions that were meant to open up the minds of Muslims and lead us – and Malaysian society – to a more modern, progressive and liberated understanding of Islam and religion in general?
    http://www.malaysia-today.net/2008/content/view/5449/1/

  5. kittykat46 says:

    Pity they didn’t come up with the suggestion before the General Elections.
    They should have given us a chance to vote on it.

    I figure it would have been worth another dozen Dewan Rakyat seats to change hands…

  6. kesava says:

    Umno screams, rants and raves about ‘struggling’ for Islam. Umno boasts about being the largest Islamic party in the world. Umno thumps its chest and argues that PAS can only talk about Islam while Umno can do more than talk since it is in power — meaning, it has to the power to serve Islam.

    Well, read this Editorial from today’s New Straits Times. This editorial from a newspaper owned by Umno demonises PAS and therefore in the same breath demonises Islam. In the Malay language newspapers that are read by Malays, Umno talks nice things about Islam. In the New Straits Times read by non-Malays, Umno demonises Islam.

    Such is the two-faced Umno, which Islam labels as munafik.
    http://www.malaysia-today.net/2008/content/view/5441/84/

  7. donplaypuks says:

    well. what’s evryone waiting for? let’s all go out & party like hell, have lots of f…..g and fornic….g with our muslim brethren & sisters, before m’sia becomes by default the world’s capital of Talibanism (with a capital T) or the govt. version of it, islam hadhari baru. it’s now or never folks; get a piece of the action b4 it’s too late!

    once the new order takes power, then there will be even more fun time with bashing down more indian, chinese, buddhist temples & relics and christian churches. what a hoot!!

    has anyone ever wondered how IKIM and the Syariah Judiciary, which both come under the PM’s department, could make proposals without the PM knowing about it or supporting?

    the PM is after all a islamic studies graduate, and all these, including his pronouncement that m’sia is an islamic state, shows us the wolf behind the sheep’s mask.

    today, the khalwat laws, tomorrow the world!! sounds familiar??

  8. what khalwat here? most khalwat between muslims and mat salleh in britain. mat salleh buy cheap air ticket , pay 4 accomodation n have free sex 4 six months. very cheap lah. Money finished? Do Suffiah style. so how 2 enforce khalwat on non muslims with malay partners when they do it in London !!!!!!!!

  9. kesava says:

    Formula One chief Mosley gives the checkered flag a whole new meaning
    http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/AntiSemi/12756.htm

  10. Peace says:

    Now you tell me is UMNO or PAS fanatics? UMNO own way of Islam and they always think they are the only one is the correct way of Islam. Moron UMNO…….go to hell. Stop spoiling and damage the Real Peaceful Way of Islam.

  11. kesava says:

    Huh?

  12. donplaypuks says:

    dear kesavan

    ‘Well, read this Editorial from today’s New Straits Times. This editorial from a newspaper owned by Umno demonises PAS and therefore in the same breath demonises Islam.’

    i read this on rpk’s malaysia today as well.

    frankly, i can’t see what the fuss is all about.

    i’m no BN suporter, i root for PKR. but, sooner or later, we will have to ask PAS to make it’s stand on islamic and hudud laws vs secular state. check with malik imtiaz sarwar at http://malikimtiaz.blogspot.com/ on why secular is the correct interpretation of the constitution.

    unfortunately, the NST is right. the Elephant IS in the room and we cannot ignore it.

    i also don’t see how criticising PAS is tantamount to demonising Islam. this is rubbish talk. you can criticising the Pope or the Dalai Lama, without being accused of fanatical hatred of Christianity or Buddhism. so, why is it that anybody and anything that cloaks itself in the garb of Islam, is exempt from fair criticism?

    c’mon. get off this slippery path and address the real issues we m’sians want discussed publicly so we know where we stand.

  13. kesava says:

    Semi Value and Ong Ka Ting do not have any job now, so they`ll be the `Whippers` for khalwatting non-muslims.
    Wonder what their salary will be for that.

  14. kesava says:

    donplaypuks: Are you trying to tell me that whipping non muslims for khalwat is OK as it is a UMNO enterprise and not a PAS inspiration?

    Remember also that Badawi, the head of BN approves of death for muslims apostates re: Nyonya Tahir case.
    IKIM is a UMNO inspired outfit supported by editor Waste Carrier Wai`s newspaper known as `Star`.

  15. kesava says:

    Remember Ling Liong Sik`s MCA and Gerakan supporty the `Islamic State`.

  16. Lingam says:

    Childish!

    It’s all these over-zealous people in power who think they know a lot BUT in actual fact, know nothing, that are pulling a brake on our nation’s much needed progress!!!

    Their narrow-minded bird brains have led them to focus on wrong things, as far as the whole nation’s well-being is concerned.

    Malaysia is blessed with lots & lots of natural resources, in addition to the competent workforce. BUT how far have we gone? On the other hand, our southern neighbour has nothing BUT managed to achieve much more!

    It’s really time to change.

  17. kesava says:

    Whipping for khalwat non muslims is their idea of change. After all there is no such thing now.

  18. koolgeek says:

    haha… such publicity will accelerate the fall of UMNO/BN. Nice move.

  19. EddieTheHead says:

    I love being punished! But it has to be Max Mosley style though.

    Any takers? Email me and I’ll show you some fun!

  20. cel8288 says:

    Are we living in Afghanistan or Malaysia??? Its your religions law. Why must force it upon non muslims???

    This kind of laws makes muslim looks bad in the eyes of a non muslim!! still living in a stone age era this bloody IKIM.

    If a muslim want to sleep with a non muslim, its on the muslims con scions!iIs their choice not your!!! remember its their rights not yours!!. Its my vote not yours!!

    Please respect our rights as a Malaysian! I treasure my freedom of choice man.

  21. merlin says:

    My Persian male cat was imported from UAE.I presume it is a Muslim.
    My Siamese female cat came from Thailand.I presume it is a Buddhist.
    They are of mating age.
    Damn Damn, now how do I get away with this Khalwat thing. A RM 500
    hotel is too expensive, not a good choice.
    At home, too many Muslim neighbours around, not too good too; out of respect for them, as their mating rituals are heck of noisy.
    Guys and Gals any suggestions please?????????
    Just tell me where to take them, and no cartoons , ok.
    Thanks.

  22. cel8288 says:

    I always assume that PAS was bad news but now i see that BN is even worst. PAS is better off now. Small brain muslim intellects are trying to show off. F@#K off.

    How dare you whip me when im not finished yet with my partner. Wait till im done la my friends, a Max Mosley style would be a good idea!! make sure im in a pure leather when whipping!! wait till im finished then release me!!!LOL

    Idiots!!!!!!

  23. pathfinder says:

    Yes why don’t they tell us before the elction. At least the MCA,MIC, BN supporters will vote for PR and we have a landslide or two third majority for PR. I really hope PAS can assist in solving the body snatching, conversion issues etc. and put an end to it.

  24. ANg kong says:

    i doubt the bill will go pass the parliament…am i right in saying tht this is merely a proposal at the moment?

    is a big mistake when gorment starts trying to tell us how to live our life… this just goes to show how short sighted some ppl are…if Islam wants to be perceived as the religion for all… this is not the way to do it in malaysia at least, as if there has not been enough bad publicity in the recent time. So, which are those 2 islamic bodies tht came up with this no-brain idea?

    ddint they say no kissing?? pls lah.. take a walk in the night spots or public parks in KL, then tell me…. more than half are our malay bro n sis.

    Be clear of one thing.. Malaysia IS NEVER AN Islamic country. Practice yr syariah laws at home by all means… but dont drag us with you.

  25. malayamuda says:

    whats MCA, MIC, Gerakan and PPP stand on this………………

    Ha caught with your pants down huh guys ? Always like to ask whats DAP stand on PAS Islamic state.

    Now we want to know your stand ??

    Guys, you wanna know what these cockless people will say now ? They will discuss these kind of sensitive issues behind close doors in the BN spirit.

    Next time DAP also must say the same, they will discuss the Islamic state issue behind close doors in the Pakatan rakyat spirit

  26. Harrison bin Hansome says:

    mitosblog Says:
    April 3, 2008 at 5:18 pm

    If you want to get uncaught, stay in 5 star hotel which will cost RM500 per night. If you stay in hotel less than that there are always some chance to get caught. But why 5 star? Because you get the full protection and they respect your privacy. That’s how it works in Malaysia.

    —————————–

    Your ideas are not too accurate. Remember Chua Soi Lek? This step will forstall your safety. Check all surroundings to ensure no hidden cameras.

    Foremostly, ensure Loh Gwo Burne is not working in the hotel. But that does not guarantee your sexiual rendevous. Remember a friend like Linda Tripp? If will cost you your presidency.😛

  27. Jane says:

    UMNO is playing its usual card to gain support and confuse people. This is not Islam but UMNO Islam. Gerekan, MIC and MCA are part of the UMNO Islam.

  28. Harrison bin Hansome says:

    Corrigendum, should read..
    Foremostly, ensure Loh Gwo Burne is not working in the hotel. But that does not guarantee your sexiual rendevous from being exposed. Remember a friend like Linda Tripp? It will cost you your presidency.😛

    I am beginning to have eye-sores but I am enjoying more.🙂

  29. Muhammad says:

    The whole idea of public punishment in islam is prevention so as to ensure healthy community life. If you think what you are doing now is perfectly safe for public consumption then why worry. Nobody is probably affected by what you are doing if you are doing it in a very private place.

    In the holy city of Mecca, the trader can safely leave their shop unattended while going for the 5 daily prayer. There is no cctv needed. In that is some proof how effective the hudud law can be when implemented accordingly in a society.

  30. ANg kong says:

    ARRRRRR… i really feel like whacking the head of those who came up with this idea with a roller up newspaper….. if u still remember, we r living in Malaysia..a country that is unique in its own right by the history, cultures and ethics make up of the society…we r not like saudi, Afghanistan … where the muslim makes up nearly 99% of the population, but this is not the point… ggggrrrrrr, geram sangat..!!! give me the newspaper and take me to those who suggested this stupid idea….

    there are many unfair misconceived ‘islamic’ rules enforced upon us..one of which i believe is converting to islam when one marries a muslim , nevertheless none of my muslim friends overseas said they practice such rule in their countries (turkey, Kuwait, Syria, Iran)!

    I suggest to you Sir, Mr Attorney general, when u receive the proposal.. pls send it to the shredder machine, if u havent got one… borrow 1 fr the nearby UMNO led MB office….i guarantee u they have it.

  31. Lingam says:

    Muhammad,

    You’ve certainly made a point there that i couldn’t agree more. BUT that’s in Mecca. Over here, we’ve just one too many over-zealous religious officers that would accuse you of khalwat even if you are not!

    Hudud law? Well, they may even end up chopping off your hands wrongly, given the competence of our crime investigators.

  32. Ong Ting Ting says:

    I am relating this true story. Don’t put me up for lashing OK?

    my friend lee is always patronizing a massage centre and calls for service of Malay girls. He says they are more friendly and more adventurous.

    I just reminded him of this whipping thing and got him thinking twice.

    To me I think it is better to abstain from these kind of activities. It does not help the family financially and he goes home unable to do his husbandry duties.

    A unsatisfied wife leds to other problems too.

    My friend, Lee on the other hand is always looking out for the next opportunity and miss out on work, reports and discipline in workplace.

    Lee by the way is a salesman.

    He is well fed and always on the prowl.

    The proposed law is good… in my thinking.

    More Islamic law please. Good ones. Practical ones and of course life enriching ones.

    More spritual, more power, more God. Amen.

  33. desert man says:

    All these Bedouins from Umnoputras have nothing better to do! The Malaysian people are thinking very hard on how to utilize manpower at its maximum efficiency by using latest the best efficient method of production. Only then Malaysia can compete with neighboring countries with quality products from maximum efficiency at lower cost.

    Malaysia will then attract more investments from quality investors for the prosperity of the nation.

    This ruling will only attract pariah Bedouins from the deserts and will certainly introduce/ advocate more archaic-desert rulings which are conducive to be practiced in the deserts.

    Come next GE, it’s time to send all these pariah Umno Bedouins to the deserts and they will be charged with khalwats with proximity of male camels/ female camels. How do you like this new desert storm ruling, dear pariah Umnoputra Bedouins?

    These pariah Umno Bedouins just cannot intermingle with ordinary Malaysians with their archaic Islamic rules/ mindset.

    Now they want to impose this archaic ruling which is only applicable in the hot blazing deserts to non-Muslims! If the non-Muslims also counter implement such archaic rules, there will be no production but qualms everyday among the different religious groups.

    These Umno Bedouins don’t contribute to nation building are just a catalyst for the destruction of the nation.

    These pariah Umno Bedouins must be sent to the deserts so that they could practice all the religious idiosyncrasies in the desert for all I don’t give a damn.

  34. cel8288 says:

    Aiya Ong ting ting, why you bother wat your friend does. Jaga la tepi kain sendiri.

    If his wife not satisfied you tolong la.!!

    If you have a good up bringing, you will not indulge in this kind of activities!

    As i said before its his choice not yours. he is the one who is gonna cum not you la!

  35. ANg kong says:

    ‘Muhammad Says:
    The whole idea of public punishment in islam is prevention so as to ensure healthy community life’

    my dear brother Mohammad, may i ask how old u r? it strikes me tht only a child will say such rubbish….

    so, u r implying all those countries tht refuse to exercise public punishment to be ‘dirty’?

    as for the traders in mecca u saw…. come, let me enlighten you…this has got NOTHING to do with huduh laws, On my overseas trip, I have seen the same ‘incidents’ takin place in towns in Sweden, Poland, Italy, Ireland and Austria (not tht i travel a lot but enough to ses things), b4 i forget… the stall keepers in pasar near home also d same. many kampung ppl also sleep without locking up…. n u thnk this is down to the huduh law. .. pls lah…

  36. rabbit says:

    If the Christians, Buddhists and Hindus also come out with their own religious ruling, there will be no peace in Malaysia.

    Everybody will have to stay in home watching tv or blogging to pass time.

    I will stay at home and made more babies and eating carrots.

    Apa-lah ini otak tak ctr pun mau jadi otaman!

  37. Peace says:

    Muhammad,
    I certainly can accept your view…Then ask those Umno Muslim Anti Khalwat catch all thos UMNO sex perverts to be cane first in the public. Then I fully agree and accept the law….Especially start of with Najib Magnolia…………..Cane him in public…lead by example…then I accept this UMNO Islam law is fair.

  38. OKT says:

    Dear Ong Ting Ting,

    lol…. u think islamic law will clamp down on Lee’s extra-curricular activity?
    Ths will only push the ‘street price’ up lah…then Lee forces to make more sales which means he has to stay away for longer… then wife even madder/angrier.. eventually….wife either seeks toy boy or divorce

    go ask your brother if he has ever sought the help of a ‘working gal’, of coz he says no… but i assure you > 95% of men has cheated at some point

    if u needs string pulled, call me 012-8886969

  39. TuaPekKong says:

    Those who want to know who suggest this law, ask KJ lah.. he is magician lah, should know about it…

  40. caravanserai says:

    Islam be for the Muslims
    Why let its rules apply to Non-Muslims?
    Close proximity by the Muslims
    Let their laws deal with them accordingly

    Why do the religious authority trespass the Non-Muslims?
    They have no rights to discipline though they can advice
    Likewise other religions too will come out with its logic
    In the end who will be called idiot?

    The religious officials should understand and read the Federal Constitution
    The founding fathers did it for the good of the country
    Let no person or government try to change that policy
    For it will bring people’s dissatisfaction to the fore

    As Kittykat46 said
    BN/UMNO will lose more seats
    If the leaders manipulate to serve their interests
    For calling Malaysia an Islamic country
    It is very wrong to pursue that perception
    As the Federal Constitution says
    Malaysia is a Secular Country

    I have no problems when rules enacted for Muslims
    They should know why it is best they refrain
    Doing immoral acts wrong in every religion
    Only don’t go overboard infringing the rights of others

    The Islamic religious officials
    You are paid to do your job
    Teach and share your religious belief
    Amongst the Malaysians of many faiths
    Just don’t try to transgress other turfs
    By right you have no rights whatsoever

    The rules of the game
    People will decide where the government is
    It is them the power of the people
    They can make the changes

    Let people decide their faith
    In history and in today’s world
    They are the ones who will answer
    For their sins answer why they do it
    The Lord is compassionate and full of grace
    Why humans want to act like perfect beings?
    I feel sad for them
    They are blinded with their own sins
    They think they are perfect…….
    God will decide my friend

  41. James Joyce says:

    kesava – on Farish A. Noor article

    “But it is in the ranks of UMNO and the UMNO-led institutions of the state that we see the mental quagmire of the elite at its worst. IKIM and the Shariah Judiciary Department are both institutions that were created under the auspices of the UMNO-led government. Yet the so-called reforms we have been presented are not intended to open up the minds of Muslims, but rather to add yet another layer of moral policing on Muslim society today.

    More worrying is the fact that now the scope of UMNO’s Islamisation policy has extended to cover non-Muslims as well, and this can only be read as yet another attempt to impose Islamic legal and political hegemony on the non-Muslims of Malaysia. ”

    This quote from the same article is more self-serving.

  42. ANg kong says:

    Way..hay…. looks like the parliamentary session will finally be aired (albeit 30 min allowed). I never thought i will see these days in my life time. I do wish and hope the MPs use proper Bahasa and english and respectful of each other…. DON’T fall asleep.
    i do hope to c a full coverage with a list of possible topics of discussion and names of MP requesting to speak.
    Also, it’s really not tht hard to have a dedicated cable/satellite/radio channel to this. Do we not own the Miasat 1,2,3 etc etc

    Dear Susan,

    looks like you will bcome a celebrity soon…our friend Ahmed ‘Shabby’ revealed RTM will invite bloggers. BUT I urge you to show them your finger! if they r genuine and wish to listen to raykat.. invite those opposition MPs, let them have equal footings/coverage as the rest!!! afterall, arent we all here speaking on behalf an for the oppositions? if RTM wants to increase their ratings, hav open night time debates amongst all major political parties preferably with an unbiased host!

    IMHO, Bloggers have no place in the alternative mass media ie TV, pls dont be lure by the possibility of 5 min fame and cheapens yor reputation.

  43. Roy Selvan says:

    Let those who are sinless cast the first stone.!!!Thats my upbringing.
    Is the officer who is going around canning everybody sinless???
    Is all our Barisan leaders/ people sin- less.???
    Is the current law makers ,who twist justice for their wimps and fancies Sinless???
    Are the Police who is given the authority to uphold Law and Order in this Country sinless???
    Are you Sinless or am I Sinless???
    If lust has engulfed a person there are always ways and means that lust will find ways to fullfill its destiny.!!!
    Do you Non-Muslims or Muslim wip your sons or daughters who are caught masterbating?? Or do you give him counseling and guidence . Isnt that the way God treats his Children??? Or does he struck us with lightning and Thunder on every mistake we make.!!!
    Be wise as your Father in Heaven is Wise…………….

  44. Margeemar says:

    The Penang Acting Police Chief says that CM Lim Guan Eng may be called up for questioning regarding his statement on the NEP. Correct me if I’m wrong, didn’t Bernama issue an apology to LGE for misquoting what LGE said about NEP? Then why is the Police pursuing this matter. They should instead throw the book at Utusan Malaysia and TV3 for spreading malicious news.

    I find it strange that this is the first time a duly elected CM is probably going to be questioned by the Police. This will never be the case if a BN chap is the CM. You know what I’m praying for to happen? By some Divine intervention, Pakatan Rakyat comes to power and Bukit Aman is turned upside down and have all the scum flushed out for the people to see the true face of the Polis DiRaja Malaysia. I want people like Musa Hassan, his predecessor’s and the entire rank and file of PDRM, past and present to be thoroughly investigated. Whoever is found guilty of unethical and unprofessional conduct must be severely punished!

    If the Police want to do something positive, it should start by initiating criminal proceedings against the Syariah Court Judge who has the audacity to recommend that non-muslims be charged in the Syariah Court if they are found to have committed ‘Khalwat’ (close proximity) with a muslim. To me, this recommendation is utterly irresponsible and seditious. Such statements if left unchecked, may create instability in the country. The Police must do their job and put this Little Mullah in his place.

    Somehow I feel this Little Mullah made his recommendation to drive a wedge into Pakatan Rakyat especially between DAP and PAS. I smell an UMNO rat here.

  45. allen ng says:

    No wonder our country does not propel forward when others are way ahead of us.Don’t you think that it is ridiculous to deal with this type of proposal when other things like tampering in the Judiciary and corruption are better things to be debated,right?

  46. jedyoong says:

    How can they prosecute non-Muslims for khalwat? Did the khalwat police make sure that Badawi din commit the ‘sin’ with his new wife? TELL US THE TRUTH. Did Pak Lah BERKHALWAT or BERZINA! Tell us!!!! Stop harrasing non-bumis…Actually LEAVE US ALL ALONE!

  47. STEVEN says:

    I think this ikim and syariah dept should be close.Maybe i overreacting.The fact during independence there is no such thing as arresting people for khalwat.It happens only during the 80’s (islamzation policy) carried out by UMNO with the blessing of gerakan,mca,mic and gang(2/3 majority u see).As a east malaysian i call for the indrouction of christian law at least in east malaysia.You see majority in east malaysia christian when Sabah and Sarawak join malaysia.The Umno govt againt with the support of mca,gerakan denies this right and eventually convert many east malaysians to muslim and by giving citizenship to muslim immigrants.The result muslims are now majority in east malaysia.I think UMNO is really genius.What can i do now? The kalawat law is also going to kena the DAYAKS like me.PLEASE HELP ME MCA,GERAKAN….

  48. joo ngan says:

    What the F..K!? Where do these people put their brains? – if they have any at all. Is there such a thing as khalwat under civil laws? Thank the heavens BN lost their 2/3 majority or else the ninnys would vote this assinine proposal into law come May.

    I for one will NEVER submit to such archaic laws. If muslims want to live by their religious decrees well and good but keep me out of it! How does one define “close proximity”? Does this mean that all muslims and non-muslims had better keep away from each other? Will we not be allowed in the same room anymore? Do we have to carry our marriage certs around at all times? Jeez! Where the F do these people get their education from? – some Taliban school in Afghanistan? Is this the way for a harmonious and integrated Malaysia? Already we are polarized along religious and racial lines and increasingly talking about them vs us and these morons come up with such dunggufied ideas?!! My God will stupidity know no end?

    Why are we blighted with such obvious lack of intellect and common sense? Is this the kind of Human Capital that AAB is refering to? May God help us all!!!!

  49. wits0 says:

    Ikim and syariah dept is actually public enemy no. 1

  50. RAJ RAMAN says:

    To Witso,
    Absobletly correct.This malaysian are going brain dead.
    Why not they spend some moment and think how to unite malaysian.Let us be a rojak race call bangsa malaysia.

    This politician and the ulama creating havoc day by day with their statement to be in power.Now they started this new formula to divide malaysian.Maybe the next statement they will issue a fatwa,non muslim and muslim girls/boys cant talk to each other.Its a sin for muslim to have a relation with non muslim.

    corrupted people will have corrupted mindset.

  51. taishan says:

    Folks, worry not. Need to have some fun with the Muslima – this should help – a fatwa from this Al Azhar guy. His prescription – suckled the woman as a baby would her mother. Now they have a mother child relationship. No sin to be together alone. No more khalwat. And Al-Azhar U, Cairo is one of the most prestigious Uni in the ME.

  52. Noor Aza Othman says:

    I’m sick of Muslims, especially from the male-elite class that are ensuring that Islamic civilization and its followers remain backward, primitive and most fundamentally ‘unfree’, especially psychologically. Thus easy to control isn’t it; the psychological weapon is the most dangerous political weapon there is, rather than bombs and so on? Muslims need to bring their house in order before continue on shouting irrationally everytime their tradition (again, not race) i.e religion is criticized and worrying about what people do in their damn private lives, for goodness sake!. Hence, I for once would like to see Muslims especially the males, go out protesting on the street, on the issues of barbaric violence sanctioned in Islam against women such as the stoning of adulterous women in Iran, “legitimized” honor-kilings and rapes(due to the silence of Sharia “laws” on this although its widespread enough among Muslims especially in the Middle East and South Asia), forced marriages, forced imposition of the veil on young girls and undue pressure on adult women, the killings of gay people in some communities, the injustice of the Sharia “laws” and many more atrocities committed under Islam. Is it any wonder then that many amidst the western population, especially the progressive liberal ones are appalled by such injustice and sanction and Islam itself. And the nerve of the Muslim “laws” trying to impose their values on non-Islamic communities; or even to the Muslim followers in their privateUmno goons lives! It shows how intolerant these Muslim male-elite class of diversity, of other beiefs and communities, and are two-faced snakes; just like the Umno goons! I bet a lot of these Umno goons are busy doing their khalwat in fancy hotels or their corrupted-gained holiday homes overseas particularly London and Australia! So, why don’t the so-called sharia courts go after them then??!! Idiot!

  53. Bola Hangus says:

    Religion should just play an advisory role. Why should we relegate ourselves into becoming a taliban state hunting people down for breaking God’s law. Any person who judge others as if he is GOd needs his head exammined, No wonder this country cant progress into a first world nation. BN morons are dragging us all down to their level. Islami should be for official ceremonies etc not to invade a citizens privacy. Whether they sin or not it is Gods duty to punish them. UMNO hypocrites are making sin money from gambling and pig farmers thru taxes etc and they never got whipped. Why selectively enforce some rule so that they look “islamic”. Whats next? chop off our heads and be stoned to death? It is hard enough beng a malay bound by these religous zealots, now they want everyopne to get a taste of theirr shit. Perhaps the Gove should sanction districts or states which follows islamic laws and other that is secular, thern we will see how the people, even muslims will choose.

  54. Malaysian says:

    So this is what they do on a 2 day seminar … hmm very productive. Very intelligent, very progressive. Yes, they deserve the Nobel humanitarian award. In fact, let’s give them all a prize. Let’s have a fundraiser and send them all, with their entire families, to live in TalibanLand. It will be our gift to them. Syariah judge Datuk Mohd Asri said they wanted to increase whipping since the number of whips now were too low as they were introduced over 20 years ago. Clap, clap, whistle, bravo … while other societies and cultures have evolved in 20 years, these jokers are shaming themselves. Yes, let’s go backwards … hell, let’s bring out our loincloths and clubs and start dragging the womenfolk around by their hair, shall we? While you’re at it, why not chop off hands of thieves and blind the peeping Toms. And then they said they wanted to rehabilitate … say what, effeminate men? What about butch women? Why, Azalina’s got your balls?

  55. Noor Aza Othman says:

    CORRECTION FROM PREVIOUS EMAIL:

    I’m sick of Muslims, especially from the male-elite class that are ensuring that Islamic civilization and its followers remain backward, primitive and most fundamentally ‘unfree’, especially psychologically. Thus easy to control isn’t it; the psychological weapon is the most dangerous political weapon there is, rather than bombs and so on? Muslims need to bring their house in order before continue on shouting irrationally every time their tradition (again, not race) i.e religion is criticized and worrying about what people do in their damn private lives, for goodness sake!. Hence, I for once would like to see Muslims especially the males, go out protesting on the street, on the issues of barbaric violence sanctioned in Islam against women such as the stoning of adulterous women in Iran, “legitimized” honor-killings and rapes (due to the silence of Sharia “laws” on this although its widespread enough among Muslims especially in the Middle East and South Asia), forced marriages, forced imposition of the veil on young girls and undue pressure on adult women, the killings of gay people in some communities, the injustice of the Sharia “laws” and many more atrocities committed under Islam. Is it any wonder then that many amidst the western population, especially the progressive liberal ones are appalled by such injustice and sanction and Islam itself. And the nerve of the Muslim “laws” trying to impose their values on non-Islamic communities; or even to the Muslim followers in their private lives! It shows how intolerant these Muslim male-elite class of diversity, of other beliefs and communities, and are two-faced snakes; just like the Umno goons! I bet a lot of these Umno goons are busy doing their khalwat in fancy hotels or their corrupted-gained holiday homes overseas particularly London and Australia! So, why don’t the so-called sharia courts go after them then??!! Idiot! One last word, how about those Muslim male policemen and VIP who barbarically murdered and probably raped Altantuya; what’s happening to the case now hah? So focus on more important things like Altantuya’s case there, will you Sharia court; those private things are between God and the followers; not with the so-called Sharia courts!

  56. RAJ RAMAN says:

    to ,
    nor aza,where there heaven you came from?.Very outspoken.
    Maybe you are the right person to teach the male ulamaks of malaysia,
    May more open minded woman like you will be born again in malaysia.Still some hope around if more people like you around.
    goodnight and have a pleasant life ahead without the ulamaks mess up your liberal brain in near future.

  57. Haparan Semua says:

    I’m totally dissappointed with the current issue!!! Why dont focus how to united all the people Malaysia irrespective of race!!!

  58. lelaforpeace says:

    Well, all of ya. Whats all the fuss here? Just a simple solution, don’t indulge in adultery with muslim women/men in Malaysia. Why cracking ur head, while try to solve this devils act

  59. Noor Aza Othman says:

    Thanks Raj. And Patrick Teoh for that matter. You know from whom I learned my greatest compassion from; most of my life – from non-Muslims here in Malaysia, and in the west! Never did learned anything from the so-called Sharia “laws” nor courts! They only know how to oppress people, particularly Muslim women and non-Muslims alike! God bless and free us all; from all religion, race, gender and sexual background!

  60. ANg kong says:

    To Noor Aza Othman,

    u forgot to mention one more thing, the barbaric female castration….(goose bumps..)

  61. Dr RKM says:

    obviously there are some of us here who are obsessed with sex. Everything done is seen in a sexual perspective. Dressing, talking, walking etc

    Women should cover up more at home than outside these days as there are being sexually assaulted by the men inside their home eg : fathers, brothers and step fathers .

    so how to you explain this Muhammad ?

    BN Govt says that this can be settled by giving people more bigger homes, as if fathers see their daughters they will get sexually aroused. What a sick world we life in ? And we speak of our mighty religion the same time.

  62. Malayamuda says:

    Nor Aza Othman,

    May God Bless you. Difficult to find Muslims like you nowadays.

  63. ANg kong says:

    To lelaforpeace,

    what’s all the fuss?? well…. it may be khalwat on non-muslims now, tomorrow they will advocate all non-muslims carry the AlQuran at all times!! follows by all non-muslims wear songkok every friday.

    Never mixes politic and religion.. this is how civil wars begin even fr the very dawn of time.

    p/s bsides u r missing the point, it’s not abt adultery! tolong read again

  64. lelaforpeace says:

    Hi Ang kong, Khalwat and adultery, I mean both. This one is not a political issue, its about religion issue and indecent act. Dont think negatively, no muslim with sane mind will force our value to others. Our Prophet didnt preach that value.Dont be another Islamic phobia issue

  65. ANg kong says:

    Dear Brother lelaforpeace,

    apologies, didnt know khalwat means adultery in islam. but how the $@%$ did someone translate tht into ‘close proximity’?

    u may say that it’s not be a political issue, but when it affects all Malaysians.. i hav to think otherwise. Mind you, I have absolutely nothing against muslims/islam, u r welcome to my home anytime and share a meal with my nenek/datuk….

    perhaps you should chair the seminar instead and request the idiiots to be escorted out….

  66. Noor Aza Othman says:

    Thanks Malayamuda, and ANG kong, for reminding me on that fundamental issu! Now, for you, lelaforpeace, instead of shouting any criticism of Islam as “Islamophobic”; why don’t you be intelligent and read up on Dr. Farish Noor’s articles. Can get it from Aliran or Lim Kit Siang’s blogs. You might learn to be a progressively modern and intelligent Malay then! Time to wake up to the 21st. century. And ANG kong is right on; this issue about trying to impose the Sharia “laws” on non-Muslims is politically charged. Religion is supposed to be personal, between God and its followers; hence should belong in the private sphere of cultural tradition (thus “Muslims” do not represent a race!). That’s why Islamic/Sharia “laws” are oppressive because they are basically politicizing the religion. Thus the existence of the Sharia “laws: in the first place is fundamentally about the Muslim male-elite class trying to sustain their dominant power and control, especially psychologically, over ordinary followers or non-followers alike!

  67. Harrison bin Hansome says:

    Margeemar Says:
    April 3, 2008 at 9:34 pm

    To Margeemar,

    If what you mentioned is true that the Police is going to investigate LGE, this solidly reflects the police in malaysia is POLICE RAJA MALAYSIA.

    Why IPCMC is not implemented till date for more than 3 years of intensive lobbying having even founded evidences of foul-plays, corruption, abuse of powers, etc. simply because if the enactment of IPCMC will clearly result in the arrest of many corrupted wo(men) in BN. So the dallying is understandable and BN will have to scratch the POLICE RAJA MALAysia’S BACK AND VICE-VERSA.

  68. billauchris says:

    It is time that the Islamic scholars and religious leaders stop pontificating and impressing their thoughts onto the non-Malays. These are the ostentatious guys who try to tell the whole world how religious they are but they are not practicing what they preach. This is just hypocritical, man.

    Morality should be leant while in schools; of course, parental guidance is equally if not more paramount in inculcaing the moral values in their children. I think these so-called pseudo-religious leaders have nothing better to do than to conceive ways and means to oppress their own kind.

    Insteading of wastine their precious time of dogging loving couples into their homes, hotel or apartment and becoming peeping toms, I think they should be educating adults to avoid using C4 explosives to blow up a human being, refraining from making female to nude-squat when under detention, avoiding corruption and suandering tax-payers money; wielding kris in Parliament etc.

    You guys please stop harrassing tourists who come into the country and demand them to produce their marriage certificates to prove that they did nto commit illicit fornication that you called khalwat. You are really an embarrassment to me.

    How would you like to be treated when you travel overseas for vacation with your wife and are confronted by religious fanatics like you guys who demand that you prove that your marriage is legit. You would have blown your nosetop, curse and swear that you ever made that decision.

    Our country has had enough of problems. Let us focus on the priorities to fight graft in the civil service and the politicians.

    Religion is something that is privy to an individual. It is a relationship between and individual and God. If he has done anything wrong, he would answer to God when he died. So do not waste good resources.

    Give more to the poor and handicapped. They need more of your time.

  69. Muhammad says:

    Dear Lingam,

    I appreciate your kindness. I knew it immediately when i read your words.

    Don’t misunderstood me as an UMNO supporter. The desparate party once thought to be invincible are the very reason why many Malaysian hated islam.

    Fortunately, Tuan Guru of Kelantan to a certain extent has donated a big part of his life to show good muslim examples to Malaysian people.

    Actually it is not that easy to implement’s hudud’s law.

    For example when somebody caught stealing.

    Firstly, Only and only after very thorough investigation that resulted in conviction beyond the slightest doubt.

    Secondly, the reason for the stealing. the thief will not be punished if he steals because he is very poor.

    Thirdly (may be!’ I am not very sure!), the environment, the community and authorities surrounding him must not be, in anyway, the reason for him to behave as such.

    The environment, community and authorities can sometime be blamed for the misdeeds.

    If then his hand finally got chopped off in public. Put it on TVs and Videos. This fateful lesson will be remembered to the CORE of every human witnessing it. Talk about it a lot and often. Talk to as many people. The punishment has eventually lead to very safe community where there is no more theft or ragut for many and many years to come. The thief will be a hero. He, in a way, has contributed to that.

  70. playfootball says:

    Hahaha, if Azalina is travelling in a plane with Pak Lah, both of them will be charged with Khalwat.
    Both will also kena rotan.

    If the MB for Selangor is having a meeting with our Eli in a meeting room, both will charge with khalwat or Eli has to marry Khalid as his second or third wife.

  71. badminton team says:

    If Anwar, Khalid and Eli of PKR are having serious meeting discussing matters for our nation before dawn, Anwar will be charged with sodomy!

    Sysbas! Pak Lah! A splendid idea to curb your political opponents.

  72. Khalid says:

    I don’t mind to have Eli as my small wife. The more the merrier. Thanks Pak Lah for your new ruling, I will sokong you when you table this bill in the Parliament.

  73. ipoh chicken rice says:

    If Nazri and AP queen were discussing AP and taxi matters in a taxi cab, both will be sent to Kemuting digging iron ore since this is proximity to them also.

  74. ipoh chicken rice says:

    If Lim Kit Siang and Fong Poh Kuan were caught eating chicken rice together discussing how to start local government election, though LKS didn’t even touched a single strand of hair, LKS would be khawated, labeled as dirty old man and will be sent to Ipoh penjala eating chicken curry rice everyday.

  75. NO FEAR says:

    Please please please use the brain when making such suggestions. Is kind of another brainless idea and backward thinking. Please don’t use religious to gain popularity.Look at the statistics of unmoral cases in M’sia, is a BIG BIG shame on them! So “pakai akal bila mau buat komen”, tak masuk akal langsung!. This kind of propaganda will only backfire more than anything, keep on do this and we will ensure they will lose 100% of the votes.

  76. b4&After says:

    If I am using my cursor to ‘ply’ open sloone website without permission and stay in the ‘room’ for the whole night, I shall be charged with khalwat!

    I shall be fined for RM10,000 and sent to jail in Kajang for 3 years. I have to pray to allah 6 times a day and ask for forgiveness for the horrendous crime I committed.

    And sloone has to close the website for good and spend 5 years in a prison in Bangkok together with Taktsin for land scam/ corruption.

  77. b4&After says:

    hello my roomate loone, if I know this is the outcome, I should prefer to be an ordinary farmer living in a simple life. I should have born in Malaysia where this is just chicken feed and I could commit any crime with impunity like Mad=hathir.

    But in Bangkok, even we share the same room, there is no khawat here. Come to think of it, Thailand has also its good side.

  78. gimblot says:

    different country, same problem, he he

  79. Ahmad Navi Abdullah says:

    Farish Noor said it. We have goons manning the religious departments and other agencies who can think nothing beyond peeping into other peoples lives, arresting those who hold hands in public and and intruding hotel rooms often harassing husbands and wives in their privacy as has happened in Malaysia often enough.

    There is more to religion than this petty view taken by these goons.What action have they taken really to educate the masses into not committing these sins. The present system of causing fear only serves to drive people away from the religion. Thailand’s tourist industry flourishes because of their liberal approach to such escapades and their main revenue comes from the arabs and the middle east countries.

    We do not condone khalwat, neither do we want prostitution to flourish. However, the approach taken by the authorities to curb these practices leave a bad taste in the mouth.

    Let the knowledgeable lead the agencise in charge of religion instead of the half past six nincompoops who have nothing better than to concentrate their time and effort on peeping into peoples private lives.

  80. badowi says:

    wow what an exellent idea, this will prevent cross marriages between muslim and non moslim. Yay to the ruling. This way non muslims will only date non muslims. And the muslims who approach non muslims will have a harder time to date with this law in place.. very good. Sokong this proposal. and if the muslims and non muslim is caught for khalwat.. easy let the non muslim cry rape.

  81. hutchrun says:

    Non muslims should consider themselves lucky:

    Tabandeh

    This modern Sufi leader wrote a whole treatise against various elements of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights that are at variance with Islamic law: an “Islamic perspective” on the Universal Declaration of Human Rights [3]. According to Professor Eliz Sanasarian of the University of Southern California, who has analyzed the plight of religious minorities in the Islamic Republic, Tabandeh’s tract became “the core ideological work upon which the Iranian government…based its non-Muslim policy.” [4] His views on non-Muslims, says Sanasarian, were implemented “almost verbatim in the Islamic Republic of Iran.” [5]

    Tabandeh begins his discussion by lauding Shah Ismail I (1502-1524), the repressive and bigoted [6] founder of the Safavid dynasty, as a champion “of the oppressed.” [7] He reaffirms the traditional inferiority of non-Muslims to Muslims as sacralized by the Shari’a:

    Thus if [a] Muslim commits adultery his punishment is 100 lashes, the shaving of his head, and one year of banishment. But if the man is not a Muslim and commits adultery with a Muslim woman his penalty is execution…Similarly if a Muslim deliberately murders another Muslim he falls under the law of retaliation and must by law be put to death by the next of kin. But if a non-Muslim who dies at the hand of a Muslim has by lifelong habit been a non-Muslim, the penalty of death is not valid. Instead the Muslim murderer must pay a fine and be punished with the lash. [8]
    Since Islam regards non-Muslims as on a lower level of belief and conviction, if a Muslim kills a non-Muslim…then his punishment must not be the retaliatory death, since the faith and conviction he possesses is loftier than that of the man slain…Again, the penalties of a non-Muslim guilty of fornication with a Muslim woman are augmented because, in addition to the crime against morality, social duty and religion, he has committed sacrilege, in that he has disgraced a Muslim and thereby cast scorn upon the Muslims in general, and so must be executed. [9]

    Islam and its peoples must be above the infidels, and never permit non-Muslims to acquire lordship over them. Since the marriage of a Muslim woman to an infidel husband (in accordance with the verse quoted: ‘Men are guardians of women’) means her subordination to an infidel, that fact makes the marriage void, because it does not obey the conditions laid down to make a contract valid. As the Sura (‘The Woman to be Examined’, LX v. 10) says: ‘Turn them not back to infidels: for they are not lawful unto infidels nor are infidels lawful unto them (i.e., in wedlock). [10]

    Tabandeh is not an aberration among Sufis. He follows in the tradition of Turkish Sufi dervishes whose violent fanaticism contributed to the forced Islamization of the indigenous Christians in Asia Minor (see the copious documentation of this phenomenon from Turkish, Greek, Near Eastern and other sources in Professor Speros Vryonis’ monumental The Decline of Medieval Hellenism in Asia Minor and the Process of Islamization from the Eleventh Through the Fifteenth Century, Berkeley, 1971, pp. 340-43, and especially chapter 5, pp. 351-402).

    Tabandeh would also no doubt have looked with approval upon tracts against non-Muslims produced by prominent Indian Sufi theologians in the 17th and 18th centuries, including lionized Sufi teachers such as Sirhindi and Shah Walli Allah. Some of their statements:

  82. islam is way of life, so say muslims. just becoz some minority non muslims said no to sharia coz they are not believer does not make sense to muslims that their (be it sharia or hudud) law cannot use on them. i bash, rape, murder someone and i say i don believe in justice, can i say civil law cannot be used against me. if there are separate laws to muslims and non-believer, it is obvious will raise unsatisfactory to muslims when the muslims have to face ordeal of trial while non-believer goes scotfree and continue the habit. imagine muslim thieves got caught and potong tangan, and non-muslim just go to jail, is this FAIR to muslims just becoz they are believer ? there shouldn’t be sharia / hudud law at the first place to have fairness to all ppl in the society…..

  83. hutchrun says:

    `it is obvious will raise unsatisfactory to muslims when the muslims have to face ordeal of trial while non-believer goes scotfree and continue the habit`

    There you are – mangy brotherhood

  84. hutchrun says:

    About the sickness:

  85. hutchrun says:

    `is this FAIR to muslims just becoz they are believer ?`

    More on the sickness:

    “You are innocent if you are a Muslim,” Choudary tells the BBC. “Then you are innocent in the eyes of God. If you are not a Muslim, then you are guilty of not believing in God.”
    Choudary said he would not condemn a Muslim for any action.
    “As a Muslim, I must support my Muslim brothers and sisters,” Choudary said. “I must have hatred to everything that is not Muslim.”
    http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2008/04/islamic_moralit.html

  86. lebaijanggut says:

    Apa ni pasal khalwat pun nak bising? takde benda lain yang lebih berfaedah? Yang korang sibuk-sibuk ni, korang ni rajin berkhalwat ke???

    KHALWAT tu maksudnya bersendirian, kalau dalam beribadah ada maksud khalwat iaitu duduk bersendirian dan beribadat, macam “Bertapa” lebih kurang.. Kalau dalam buddha ada sejarah macam mana beliau bersendirian untuk mencari erti hidup di bawah pohon Bodhi. Itulah khalwat.

    Adapun Khalwat yang dibincangkan ni, iaitu perbuatan berdua-duaan, di tempat tersembunyi, yang boleh mendatangkan syak dan didapati samada sedang atau cuba nak melakukan maksiat (ringan-ringan, raba-rabaan, cumbu-cumbuan, bl*w job, zina,etc..). Kalau sekadar bersembang atau berbincang samada soal biasa atau soal cinta, takkan tak boleh sembang di cafe? Kenapa mesti sorok-sorok?

    Sekali lagi aku ulang… Korang bising-bising ni sebab korang rajin berkhalwat/buat maksiat ke? Tutup je perbincangan ni.. Baik incang isu-isu lain yang lebih berfaedah.. Macam apa aktiviti yang sepatutnya dilaksanakan untuk meningkatkan kesefahaman antara kaum dan agama di Malaysia. Apa yang kaum Cina rasa terhadap Melayu dan India, pandangan kaum India terhadap Melayu dan Cina dan begitu juga sebaliknya antara Melayu terhadap Cina dan India. Biar kita bincangkan perbezaan kita secara jujur dan berhemah semoga dapat kita cari persefahaman.

  87. Lim says:

    I think the law is more relevent to the Wanita Zinar Bertudung UMNO or the Wanita UMNO that setiap kali bocor in Parliment and Chua Soi Lek. Should correct themselve first for those representing the nation and country before implement to us M’sian

  88. Lim says:

    Dr.Chua said I think who is the culprit, Msiakini 3 April 08. Means ke really makeit though.

  89. hutchrun says:

    “Tutup je perbincangan ni.. ”

    The truth hurts these holy monsters.

  90. cyphuell says:

    nothing wrong with the proposal. the law aims to protects the right and the interest of the individual and the public, morally and socially. the law punish theft because it was morally wrong and infringe the proprietory right of an individuals. the law punish abortion because it was morally wrong. our penal law had already classified ‘indecent behaviour’ whether comitted publicly of privately as an offence punishable by max 2 years imprisonment. having sex with animals also is an offence with heavy punishments. WHY? because it was morally wrong. so, on the same argument, close proximity is morally wrong. it may leads to adultery, sexual harrasment, outrage modesty, rape and is not acceptable in Malaysian culture. think and act wisely, read and understand the jurisprudence, which discuss about the philosopy of law. why the law was made, the purpose etc. i support the poposal because it only relate to non muslim who stays in close poximity with muslim, and we have to understand what amount to an act of close proximity. law is not as simple as we think.

  91. Ong Ting Ting says:

    how about if i work late with my malay clerk and all alone? can get caught kah?

  92. Scott Thong says:

    Recall how these obviously non-Muslims were punished by the Syariah (not civil) courts:

    Mr and Mrs Very-Caucasian Barnhart

  93. hutchrun says:

    `..it only relate to non muslim who stays in close poximity with muslim, and we have to understand what amount to an act of close proximity..`

    You agree to that, then you are a dhimmi and a good one. This is flawed reaqsoning, you equate sex with a woman to sex with animals.
    So tell us, your mother and sister(s) are your dogs, cats, goats or what?

  94. freewave says:

    I don’t support Islamic laws, not because I’m non-muslim but because the punishments to the muslims are barbaric and inhumane.

    On the laws for khalwat (islamic or civil), I don’t support it. Not because I’m afraid or want to get away scott free for immoral activities. In fact, I would never do such a thing. I know I could never get caught. I don’t support it because this will discourage unity. Other races will stay away from malay girls. In my opinion, the government should encourage mix marriage because only with more mix marriage, the rate of unity of races in Malaysia can be increase many folds to achieve vision 2020.

    You may have noticed people with mixed blood are more open. Only with an open mind, malaysian will move forward. Or we can choose to move our clock 2000 years backwards.

  95. cyphuell says:

    ‘…In my opinion, the government should encourage mix marriage because only with more mix marriage, the rate of unity of races in Malaysia can be increase many folds to achieve vision 2020…’

    i think your argument is out of scope. islam never prohibits mix marriage. what islam prohibit is marriage with people of different religion (muslim + christians etc). and law on close proximity doest not meant to discourage unity. close proximity or khalwat means ‘being together with person who is marriagable, in a place or situation which can lead to a suspicion that they commit vice activities.’ if we sit with a woman in a coffee shop, or having a meeting in a room while other people are around outside the meeting room, it is not considered as khalwat.

    i also does not agreeable to the saying that islamic punishment is barbaric and inhumane. punishment is not meant to please or entertain the convict. it serve as a lesson to the convict as well as to the society so that they stay away from any criminal act. islamic punishments comes with strict rules and regulation in regard to the implementation. it is not like you can just whack the adulterer as you like, or lash them as hard as you can. some of punishments which has been implemented in some islamic countries as we can see in some websites does not really follow the islamic rule of punishment.

  96. EddieTheHead says:

    “…some of punishments which has been implemented in some islamic countries as we can see in some websites does not really follow the islamic rule of punishment…”

    Is that right? Holy schmoly, and here I was thinking that there was at least one country that does it “according” to proper Islamic rule. Or really there are none cos there are just too many “somes” there to make even one?

  97. dodgy inc says:

    A yo yo.

    If this rule applies to the PAST events, all our nauthy forefather & foremother should receive rotan by now.

    If this rule to be applied in the PRESENT day, all the male should be better off having their respective sex organ chopped off as a precautionary measure.

    If this rule to be applied in the FUTURE, our genes should be better off altered into single sex creature.

    I wonder human kind still around if UMNO mentality persists.

  98. Scott Thong says:

    22nd poster from top.

    Malaysian Politics Motivational Posters

    If they can get it so blazingly WRONG when khalwat applies only to Muslim-Muslim pairings, how blazingly WRONG will they get it when just one party has to be Muslim?

  99. Jolly Giant says:

    `islamic punishments comes with strict rules and regulation in regard to the implementation. it is not like you can just whack the adulterer as you like, or lash them as hard as you can…`

    So sweet. This must be loving peace then:

    “Thus if [a] Muslim commits adultery his punishment is 100 lashes, the shaving of his head, and one year of banishment. But if the man is not a Muslim and commits adultery with a Muslim woman his penalty is execution…

    Similarly if a Muslim deliberately murders another Muslim he falls under the law of retaliation and must by law be put to death by the next of kin.

    But if a non-Muslim who dies at the hand of a Muslim has by lifelong habit been a non-Muslim, the penalty of death is not valid. Instead the Muslim murderer must pay a fine and be punished with the lash. [8]

    Since Islam regards non-Muslims as on a lower level of belief and conviction, if a Muslim kills a non-Muslim…then his punishment must not be the retaliatory death, since the faith and conviction he possesses is loftier than that of the man slain…

    Again, the penalties of a non-Muslim guilty of fornication with a Muslim woman are augmented because, in addition to the crime against morality, social duty and religion, he has committed sacrilege, in that he has disgraced a Muslim and thereby cast scorn upon the Muslims in general, and so must be executed. [9]
    _______________________________

    Seekers of inner spiritual peace ROTFL.

  100. RAJ RAMAN says:

    This subject is very entertaining for me,at least i can bind a book and export to the liberal minded people.

    I do have one more comment to add how the ulamaks,umno and their cronies make easy money from muslim.
    1.If muslim couple want TO get married they had to attend compulsary course.I dont know what they teach there by this ulamaks,but i know the reason why?

    The religious department say,the course for young muslim to learn about the responsibilty to be husband and wife an avoid alot of muslim couple getting divorce.

    Its bull and shit,the ulamaks actually throu umno,charging fees to the young people.Do they know or not in any marriage there are bound to be divorce and to be husband and wife dont know how to make the relationship work.

    Its the only other means for them to make more money from this poor muslim in the name of god.YOU MAY SEE ALOT OF BANNERS ALONG THE ROAD “KHUSUS PERKAHWINAN”

    ANOTHER MEANS TO MAKE MONEY AND CORRUPTED ULAMAKS of umno
    What do you think about this nor aza and the bloggers.?

  101. freewave says:

    Cyphuell, cutting of limbs and stoning to death is barbaric. Moden country should use modern punishment.

  102. cyphuell says:

    “Thus if [a] Muslim commits adultery his punishment is 100 lashes, the shaving of his head, and one year of banishment. But if the man is not a Muslim and commits adultery with a Muslim woman his penalty is execution…”

    Jolly, i wonder where u get this. shaving of head and banishment is not the prescribed punishment for adultery. in murder cases, the heir of the victim has three options: kill in retaliation or pay compensation or forgive and release the murderer. Death is not the only option and lash is not the prescribed punishment for murder. as regard to the killing of non-muslim, the above option still remain except in certain exceptional cases. Islam does not discriminate non muslim in term of punishments as mention by you.

    it seems that the thing that you have qouted and put here is misleading.

    u may said that cutting of limbs and stoning to death is barbaric, how about electrocution/death injection/hanging? is it not barbaric? the criminals did the wrong and they deserve the punishments. if our relative was killed, what type of punishment do we want to be imposed upon the murderer? jail only? is it enough?

  103. cyphuell says:

    “…Its bull and shit,the ulamaks actually throu umno,charging fees to the young people.Do they know or not in any marriage there are bound to be divorce and to be husband and wife dont know how to make the relationship work…”

    Raj, the main purpose of the course is to prevent it from happening. during the course, the husband&wife to be will learn about marriage, how to overcome problems as well as to avoid misunderstanding, financial planning and all things related so that the couple know what are their responsibility and challenges they will be facing with when they were married. it is a good course actually. maybe you can try to join it and you may find it as interesting and full with knowledge. however, the fee they carge for the course should be nominal, not like what they charge now.

  104. Jolly Giant says:

    `it seems that the thing that you have qouted and put here is misleading.`

    You lack knowledge that is your basic problem. Don`t try to mislead people with your lies. You should be ashamed. Go and shave your head bald. Maybe already bald.

    That is written by , a sufi scholar, Tabandeh, Sultanhussein. “A Muslim Commentary on the Universal Declaration of Human Rights”, 1970 Pg: 18-19

    This modern Sufi leader wrote a whole treatise against various elements of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights that are at variance with Islamic law: an “Islamic perspective” on the Universal Declaration of Human Rights .

    According to Professor Eliz Sanasarian of the University of Southern California, who has analyzed the plight of religious minorities in the Islamic Republic, Tabandeh’s tract became “the core ideological work upon which the Iranian government…based its non-Muslim policy.”

    His views on non-Muslims, says Sanasarian, were implemented “almost verbatim in the Islamic Republic of Iran.”

  105. Jolly Giant says:

  106. lelaforpeace says:

    Noticed someone mentioned about KURSUS KAHWIN. I went to the course myself few years ago before , its not just teaching about religious value ( responsibility of husband and wife) but include teaching of medical issue as well such as STD and others related couple issue. I think its not that expensive rather that paying Hotel Room charge. Anyway personally that kind of education should be given by parents, school and other form of education scope as well. One day course wont be sufficient to educate couple to be more responsible . By the way Ang Kong, I am sister le.. not brother

  107. Jolly Giant says:

    The proposals are basis for grave concern for two reasons. Firstly, apart from the questionable legality of the proposals, they are deeply worrying for the fact of whose views they are. In this I do not intend to refer to individuals but rather the agencies involved. IKIM is the government linked agency that is charged with the articulation of Islam Hadhari.
    [ ]
    Not only do the proposals smack of ‘talibanism’, they have quite predictably failed to address the more fundamental problems affecting the ummah in Malaysia in their not unusual preference of form over substance.
    [ ]
    Secondly, the proposals suggest an intent on the part of the agencies concerned to persist in attempts to perpetuate divisive delineations of race and religion as well as the underlying supremacist positioning.

    http://malikimtiaz.blogspot.com/2008/04/test-for-reform-cabinet.html

  108. Muslimah says:

    Better to have 2 columns so dont have to scroll down much.

  109. RAJ RAMAN says:

    To,
    Cyphuell ,
    Point noted.
    to,
    lelaforpeace,

    its not someone mention about KHUSUS PERKAHWINAN.Its me.
    raj raman.

    to,donplaypuks,will email to u soon,a bit lazy,just manage to get your email throu sloone blogs.
    Let me abuse a bit of sloone blogs.Have a free ride for lazy people like me.create more friends.To everyone there,its pleasure to read your comments.

    thanks,raj raman.

  110. malay beauty says:

    In ancient China, all those who worked in the palace were all had to be castrated. This was to safe guard the concubines from having affair with the emperor’s servants. Hence it’s a rule that all those who wanted to work in the palace must be castrated.

    So this ruling is a precursor by the Umno Muslim High Priests to castrate all the non-Muslim to safe guard the Umnoputeries in Malaysia.

    This thus halt the non-Muslim chromosomes being implanted into the Muslims’ eggs and vice versa.

    Do you know why the BN lost their 2/3 majority? Well! It’s the cross breed which wreaks havoc to the Umno led BN.

    So to restore their supremacy over the cross bred smart-enhanced bumiputras, they have to restore the pure and dumbness bumiputras and curb the cross breeding among bumi and non-bumi.

    So non-bumis/ Muslims, please be prepared to get ‘potong’, now for khawat, later it would be compulsory.

    In due time, all the non-Muslims would become eunuchs.

    A shrewd move by Pak Lah. This is a 139% strategy in winning back the 2/3 majority.

    Sorry, brader Anwar, it’s a one way ticket for you ohh…!

  111. cyphuell says:

    jolly,

    thank you for the info about tabandeh. i dont know him and havent read his writing. he is an iranian sufist, which subscribed to shi’a school of thought. maybe thats the reason why his writing is like that. dont know whether he refers to the major islamic scholars who writes about Fiqh and criminology in his writing. (if you want to know further about shi’a and their differences with sunni, do your further research).

    however, i advise you and anybody who want to know about islamic criminal law to read the book on islamic criminology writen by the well known muslim scholars like abdul qadir audah and wahbah az zuhaily. apart from the quran itself, their book was made as a main reference in islamic criminology and they refered to the quranic injunctions, tradition of the prophets and views of the 4 islamic schools of thought thoroughly. the original book was in arabic, but the english translation is available. another book is by prof dr anwarullah, the criminal law of islam. actually there are a lot of book out there but what i mentioned above is the major reference. then you will know whether i am telling lies or not.

    do your reading, a lot of reading and understand the subject thoroughly, later on your comments and critics will carries weight. otherwise, it will be a loose and stray arguments. dont just relies on the writing in the webs written by anonymous, or arguments by the western scholars since they might understand the subject wrongly. can go to http://www.islamonline.com. a lot of info available there. argue thing intellectually, not emotionally.

  112. Jude says:

    All you Hamsap man please be carefull….!!!

  113. ajimoni says:

    I DARE ALL OF YOU HERE.. ASK THE SCHOLAR OF ISLAM IN THIS ISSUE.. DON’T JUGDE THIS ISSUE FROM ONLY ONE PERSPECTIVE OF VIEW..

  114. MBA says:

    If the rule of Islam is deeply studied, you will see how its work. Islam have been criticized and misunderstood badly from all side.. and because of that my faith and believe in islamic rule and teaching become stronger. there is more conversion into islam confession video in youtube than other religion. take a breathe and think why…

  115. […] Khalwat Alert – Perak Religious Department to Continue Raids on Hotels, and made more relevant by Beware: Khalwat for you, too […]

  116. miss99 says:

    Nor Aza – hear hear. Syariah ought to be abolished. We are in the 21st century! Yet in some parts of the world, we are still governed by a set of ancient, outdated laws which have no relevance to society today and only serve to limit our thinking and prevent our mental development and progress as a human race. Abolish Syariah! why must we define ourselves as people of a religion, faith or race? We are people, plain and simple. Free thinking should be encouraged rather than brainwashing our kids through religious teachings, which threaten the wrath of Allah or a burning in Hell, should you dare to mix with the opposite sex, not cover your hair, or take a sip of wine. Are we not more enlightened than this nonsense?

  117. Sarah Conway says:

    The image you’ve used for this post isn’t yours and is copyrighted. If you wish to continue using the image please place the appropriate copyright and credit to me, as it’s me in the image. Otherwise, please remove it.

  118. Jim McDonald says:

    Ma’sm Con way,

    Allright, sure. But will you be pointblank on this. Who plagiarized your propriety??

  119. Anonymous says:

    “miss99 on January 12, 2009
    Nor Aza – hear hear. Syariah ought to be abolished. We are in the 21st century! Yet in some parts of the world, we are still governed by a set of ancient, outdated laws which have no relevance to society today and only serve to limit our thinking and prevent our mental development and progress as a human race.”

    miss99, this argument proves that you does not understand about islamic teaching at all. islam is not stagnant as you understand. it is a cmplete way of life and shall remain practical until the end of this world. please read and learn about islam comprehensively before making such comments since it will mnislead others.

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