But needs to locate the photograph…

Tian Chua is at it again. This time he says he has “ENOUGH” evidence that DPM Najib has met Altantuya. But he added that he was not duty bound to reveal the information. Instead he said that the prosecution team has the evidence but is not pursuing the matter.

(I wish he would reveal the ‘evidence’ now in the interest of justice and not wait till the General Elections).

When Malaysiakini contacted him, Tian alleged that Altantuya was a party in the untendered commissions received by a Malaysian company for the purchase of arms in France. “Abdul Razak got the commissions and Najib knows about this. The prosecutors, Altantuya’s father (Setev Shaariibuu) and the Mongolian High Commissioner know about it. But why has this matter not been brought up in court?” he asked.

Najib, however, through the Defense Ministry, had denied paying any commissions in the deal involving two Scorpene submarines from France and 18 Sukhoi jets from Russia. But PKR, through its defacto leader, Anwar Ibrahim, continues to accuse Najib of having links with both the alleged commissions deal and Altantuya, who, according to court documents and her father, is fluent in both French and Russian and is said to be working as a translator.
During the trial, a Mongolian witness known as Amy, testified she had seen a photograph of a Malaysian government official known only as “Najib Razak” dining with Altantuya and Abdul Razak baginda, the accused. Najib continues to deny that he knows Altantuya.

Meanwhile, PKR’s Youth movement is planning to launch a campaign to locate the ‘controversial’ photograph.

“I believe there are a lot of photographers (that may have photographed them together overseas), maybe there are still keeping the picture. We hope to share these photographs with the public come the next general election,” he said.

45 responses »

  1. ghenjis khan says:

    what is so difficult lah. You pay money to reporters from Paris, Madrid, Moscow, Shanghai, Hong Kong, or wherever else ……

    and they will come up with photoshots, or witnesses in restaurants…..

    and you pay them maitre of the restaurants or booking or reservations list …..

    or if you want ot play cheap cheap , go bribe some Embassy staff whether Malaysians or the local [foreigners working in Embassy] , they will tell everything you need to know …..

    buy a Louis Vuitton bags or if you prefer cash which is quite untraceable ….

    IBM says Think

  2. Rajah says:

    “But he added that he was not duty bound to reveal the information.”

    I’m sorry to say that this is crap!

  3. Hahahhaah What utter BS!

    Last Friday, when I asked Tian why they didn’t produce the photo, he gave some cock n bull story about such events being ‘private’ and if the photo is out, the photographer will be found out! i.e. the particular dinner is a private affair with limited access to photographers, and it will be easy to identify him should the photo come out.

    He even defended his doctored ‘artsy fartsy’ photo by saying it’s not defamatory.

  4. Libra says:

    Tian is a smart guy. When he first came out with the doctored version, I was quite sure that he had seen or possesses the originals.
    The doctored one is the precursor. with a view to lead Najib to step on quicksand.

  5. the last thing we want to have is a superior quality doctored picture of altantuya… some people can be VERY proficient with adobe photoshop, you know.

  6. omigosh says:

    I guess its no use just to say that you have evidence and not exposing it, is there?

  7. hgtute says:

    Publish the photo in the internet using an overseas website. Within 24 hours, the ugly fat cat will have to resign

  8. wits0 says:

    Using elements that are available in the Net means that no matter how proficient a Photoshopper may be, another person may easily turn out their source origination. Using own unique pictures not found on the Net is another matter.

    Omigosh, I recall that Ezam still hasn’t shown his boxes of documents after all these years.

  9. The Observer says:

    Ridiculous ! What is he trying to do here is to merely establish some vague link between Najib – Altantuya so that they can make the kill in political sense.Purely to make the political kill and nothing got to do with justice.

    Why cant they just investigate the whole issue and obtain all evidence and make a strong link to the murder of altantuya. They cant because they dont have anything but speculation and conspiracy theory.

    What is with all the ..we believe..we think so and surely there are some photos out there. WHAT NONSENSE. AND THEY CALL THEMSELVES JUSTICE PARTY AND PROPONENTS OF ISLAMIC PRINCIPLES.

    This is a typical UMNO like endeavor- character assassination and stone throwing. This shows that PKR have lost all credibility to challenge UMNO as a party.

    Why PAS is not doing the same thing? Because they believe in taking on the party and the issues behind the administration.

    PKR is going for Najib? Why-this is purely to finish off the Najib-Hishamuddin Onn legacy and the Mahathir support base in UMNO so that Anwar can get back into UMNO can pave the way for Khairy in coming future.

    What good the country and the people going to gain from this childish stunt and what justice will be served in the Altantuya’s case by continuing to make allegation on Najib without anything concrete and certain.

    They are doing this only because the election is around the corner and to go to the polls with this case to provoke the BN side.

    If Anwar have shook hand with Mr A in a function and some photographer caught it in his camera, does it make that they know each other?

    Even if they have met before- does that mean that they know each other?

    With all this photographs adduced to public-does that give a reason to establish some suspicion and give reason to investigate.

    Investigate what? what conclusion? what is the finality to this?

    Even the link that PKR trying to show is too far and too remote.He is at the top of the chain and he is the DPM and she is right at the fringe of the bottom end and she is just a translator. No relationship can be assumed as Najib is not dealing with this personally because this is not his core function.

    Even if there is some link-why kill her? because of money? Because of the fear of the deal be exposed? Dont tell me that they dont have the money to shut her up? what is the commission worth that they cant afford. Fear of story be exposed? Dont they know that they control the entire media in this country?

    So what is the link and what is the motive? say it out and do the case a favor if any.

    Tian Chua is sadly become a political animal and desperate to play UMNO politics. Its sad that PKR have become a pawn in UMNO’s politics.

    What justice? what concerns? there are too many issues and concerns in this country and all PKR is concern about is a photo. There are too many people suffering in this country and PKR did nothing while the entire AMK is mobilised to hunt for a photo?

    Suddenly PKR become active-for what-to finish Najib off and remember that when it comes to issues that really concerns the people, all they do is SLEEP.

    PKR should learn from the more matured and established political parties like DAP,PAS and PSM.

  10. hutchrun says:

    MggPillai once wrote that when deals were being made at the Defence Ministry, Najib`s wife used to sit in the next room, and the `offers` (in other parlance known as `bribes`) were discussed there.
    Interestingly, Razak Baginda`s wife has been reported in the media as saying that her husband had `no ambitions of becoming PM`.
    I would think that Najib does have such ambition, if not what`s the use of being DPM.

  11. kittykat46 says:

    Tian Chua – the less mentioned about him, the better. Hey, I’m a Keadilan sympathiser🙂 , but the guy gives the rest of the gang a bad name…

    Most legal systems do not accept digital photographs as evidence – for good reason.
    A real pro can falsify a digital photograph in almost undetectable ways.

    One of the most interesting statements from the Altantuya episode is Bags wife screaming “He doesn’t want to be the next Prime Minister”.

    She’s telling you to read between the lines, but most of the country either refuses to do so, or is just incapable of doing so.

  12. monsterball says:

    I am also a Keadilan sympathiser…but who knows…Tian Chua may own the original and will be a multi millionaire for not exposing it.
    In Bodohland…anything and everything is possible.

  13. omigosh says:

    You know, hopefully he or someone else is in possession of the original photo or other evidence and expose it before the elections. But either way I think Barisan will still retain the majority in the coming elections. Thats sad.

  14. omigosh says:

    But at least the expose will shaken his political position badly and prove that he wasnt telling the truth. Remember Ijok where he swore (demi allah) that he doesn’t know who Altantunya was.

  15. Libra says:

    This swearing stuff is very common among UMNO leaders. I remember those who joined semangat 46 swore with the same words never to rejoin UMNO but they are back there now.
    Swearing is a plaything among politicians.

  16. monsterball says:

    HOW TRUE ….HOW TRUE LIBRA

  17. hantutelur says:

    swearing in commonplace among politicians, in parliament, in agm’s, but not proprietory of umno. pay a visit to mca/dap/mic meetings, you’ll see that and worse, chair throwing or shoe-fighting osso got. it happens in taiwan, in italy, in delhi, in australia, everywhere. stop picking on umno, malay, muslim. we are all human beings, we have our own strenght and weaknesses. for monsterball to agree with libra is like a double standard. monty, look at your own comments in the free speech zone, pretend you are a casual visitor or better, the receiving end. your own swearwords are stinkier than shit. it wont get deleted, it is a perpetual proof that you are not better than the mp’s. at least the mp’s only talk about bocor, which is a real situation only not to be talked about.

  18. interjeras says:

    As always “not enought evidences” hr…

  19. monsterball says:

    hantutelur…..Your sense of proportions is totally out ….. comparing my swearing at Free Speech Zone to Parlimentarian meetings spoken by ELECTED politicians.
    Why are you focusing on my character? Your mild mannered does not prove you are a better person. Usually crooks and corrupted politicians are well behaved like you.
    Your nick speaks volumes of your character too.
    Concentrate on the message and if you want to talk nonsense….go to Free Speech Zone.

  20. KTemoc says:

    If there is a photo, does anyone believe dear de facto leader won’t produce it immediately (for the foreign press) to destroy Najib thro’ dodgy association, because such a photo does diddly squat in pinning any case associated with the murder on Najib.

    Blackening Najib’s name thro’ massive fling of poo has been the de facto game, and Tian Chua is de facto chief poo flinger.

    I feel sorry for Tian Chua because after he ahs done his work, he may be shocked to see his de facto leader crawling to AAB and KJ bearing a silver platter with Najib’s political head, and whimper to the royal in-laws “I did for you, now don’t forget me”.

    OTOH, I feel amused by the ridiculous spin that somehow Tian Chua is brilliant and with a thunderous flash and neon lights flashing will, like the 7th Calvary at the last possible moment, reveal the “real” photo at the correct moment.

    PKR members have degenerated in an inability to face facts and now begin to lie to themselves.

    There is no photo, full stop.

    Quote
    Meanwhile, PKR’s Youth movement is planning to launch a campaign to locate the ‘controversial’ photograph.

    “I believe there are a lot of photographers (that may have photographed them together overseas), maybe there are still keeping the picture. We hope to share these photographs with the public come the next general election,” he said.
    unquote

    What does the above tell us other than PKR’s pathetic wish to look for a non-existing needle in a haystack.

    Instead of issuing good policies as a precursor to the coming general election, the party has indulged in moronic fixation with a photo just to pamper a former UMNO person’s wish to destroy Najib as his ticket to return to the UMNO fold.

    Tian Chua is unwittingly pampering to that – how “brilliant” can he be?

  21. pope says:

    who the hell killed altantuya?
    if the suspects able to locate the place where altantuya was killed, is he a
    a) killer
    b) witness
    c) innocent by stander
    d) tourist

  22. hantutelur says:

    none of the above. he got it in a dream, just like susan

  23. notsosmart says:

    Hey pope, I think he dreamt of it. You know the six-sense things. Then the next day consulted a bomoh to confirm the location.

  24. ayak says:

    all BULLSHITTING!! including tian chua.

  25. […] “Enough” evidence to implicate Najib with Altantuya But needs to locate the photograph… Tian Chua is at it again. This time he says he has “ENOUGH” […] […]

  26. Rajah says:

    “If the suspects able to locate the place where altantuya was killed, is he a killer…?”

    B itself the fact that you are able to lead the police to the scene of the crime i.e. place where someone had tried earlier to dispose of her dead body where only her bone fragments were later found, it does tend to prove that if you are not the killer, you know the identity of the killer or killers. Yes.

    But when you lead the police to the crime scene which only the killer or killers would know after your confession to the police, the confession itself may not be admissible evidence because it was forced out of him by threats, or promises etc but the fact that you led the police to the scene is evidence.

    You shot and killed someone and threw away the gun into the river where it would not be discovered. The police tortured you into making a confession but that confession is not admissible in a court of law – the killer who confessed knows it and the police knows it. Does it mean he’s free to walk? No if he led the police afterwards to where he dumped the gun used in the murder.

    The confession forced out of you is the ‘poisonous tree’ and the ‘fruit of the poisonous tree’ the gun, is equally poisonous.

    The workings of the common law sometimes lead to injustice requiring intervention by the highest legislature in the country and in our case Parliament.

    Our Parliament passed the Evidence Act many years ago and under Sec. 27 which reads:

    “27. When any fact is deposed to as discovered in consequence of information received from a person accused of any offence in the custody of a police officer, so much of such information, whether such information amounts to a confession or not, as relates distinctly to the fact thereby discovered may be proved. ”

    makes the ‘fruit of the poisonous’ admissible evidence in a court of law which otherwise would be ruled inadmissible.

  27. Rajah says:

    It is no proof that you did the killing but the jurors are free to make their inference.

  28. Rajah says:

    As for Tian Chua, in my opinion, he has lost credibility over the issue and his supporters are probably deserting PKR as a result in droves.

    It is time for damage control.

  29. ghenjis khan says:

    what is more interesting about the case is the following statements reported :

    1. Supt Zainol Samah was tasked to oversee invetsigations, who commanded him to oversee,was the IGP or Director of CID ?

    2. the Federal Dep Dir II of CID one Syed and City CID Dep Chief Supt Ramli head special team?

    3. so who is the Chief Investigation Officer and how can a low ranking person Supt “oversees” a higher ranking person ?

    4. it evident from this scenario, the IGP, Dep IGP, Dir CID , WP CPO, Selangor CPO may not be too sure who is actually the Chief Investigation Officer ? {note crime may have been committedin WP and Selangor]

    5.Shouldn’t the Chief Investigation Officer be the one to be brought by the DPP and questioned by the Defence counsels ?

    Over to you Rajah

  30. hutchrun says:

    It is no proof that you did the killing but the jurors are free to make their inference.
    ________________________________________
    What? There are `jurors`in malaysia.
    Best joke so far.

  31. hutchrun says:

    There is no photo, full stop.
    __________________________
    And what say you when it turns up, after the trial.

  32. KTemoc says:

    why/how would it turn up after teh trial when it doesn’t exists.

  33. Rajah says:

    Hutchrun, I’m aware that Malaysia has done away with jury trials a long time ago even for murder cases.

    Since there are no jurors, it is the judge who makes the inference and not members of his peer – and here I of course mean the accused.

  34. Rajah says:

    Genghis Khan,

    You seem to know a lot about the inner workings of the police bureaucracy. I agree with you and that I do without the benefit of the local grapevine, that there is evidence of political interference even at the investigation stage and not just over the course of this trial.

  35. pope says:

    that what will happen when there is no jury system. the rule of law so rigid that we throw out common sense and logical thinking. i guess justice is blind after all.

  36. hutchrun says:

    But to have a jury system in m`sia isn`t such a hot idea either, there will certainly be lopsided outcomes.

  37. Rajah says:

    “…what will happen when there is no jury system.”

    We deserve a jury of our peers and not a trained legal professional like the judge.

    Let the judge be the source of our laws and the jurors be the trier of the facts. We live in communities and when we break the laws, they are those that the community makes for us to follow and punish those who do not. Who better than our peers to judge if we have in fact disobeyed those laws?

    There used to be a trial by jury for murder cases. I do not know why they have decided to do away with jury trials. Perhaps the concern about a possible perversion of the course of justice is real. I cannot imagine how Ahmads, Ah Chongs and Murthis – one a security guard, another your favorite neighborhood mechanic and the last your favorite roti canai daun pisang curry fish head seller, huddled together in a locked room at the Hilton to figure out what must have happened and what the facts are.

    But Malaysia used to have the jury system. How did they manage? It would appear that they decided to do away with jurors because they were finding it increasingly difficult to find persons who have not acted as jurors before, to act as jurors.

    In the U.S. they have jury consultants whose job is to advise counsel on the kind of jurors they should seek to sit on the panel. These jury consultants are experts at what they do and the good ones make six figures remuneration. Often times it is between losing your case and winning.

    Why is that so?? If you did the crime you must be guilty. Trials are not about whether the accused is innocent or not innocent. It is about how the guilty could escape being found guilty. Razak Baginda walks because there isn’t enough evidence to prove even if he has a case to answer. Not because he is innocent.

    As for the other two who did the crime of murder, it is about admissibility of their confessions and whether the fact that one led the police to the scene of the crime and the other to the place he lived where incriminating evidence were found, are admissible evidence in law. The facts are clear.

  38. Rajah says:

    Do you know that in those countries which have a jury system, lawyers and police officers are not allowed to act as jurors. Why do you think that is so??

  39. justavoice says:

    The only way to reveal the Najib Altantuya link is to get the Mongolians to spilll the beans.IMHO the Mongolians are keeping mum because they have made a pact with the prosecution not to mention the Najib link if they want to get the real murderers punished.Amy blurted out something but the way proscecution and defence jumped reveals a lot in itself.The Mongolians have compromised in this matter and this just proves that their mouths have been stuffed with the millions.Susan since you have a rapport with the Mongolians why don’t you endeavour to get them to spill the beans and explain what Setev meant when he said at a press conference that his daughter was killed because she knew too much.All this talk about the photo is of no effect to nab Najib.The Mongolians have to be truthful and expose the truth to Malaysians without fear or favor otherwise the real culprits will go scot free.

  40. monsterball says:

    What a bunch of great brains we have in Malaysia.
    Reading what justavoice wrote..make me kepala pusin…….hahahahahaha

  41. Chaptokarm says:

    i agree fully with libra that tian chua is a very smart guy. you want to catch a thief you have to lure him out.

  42. onlyme says:

    Publicity-seeker Tian Chua would’ve posted the original photo if he had it. He wished he had it but he didn’t have it. So out of extreme desperation, he produced a silly doctored one.

    The original photo would have appeared on the internet by now if in the hands of someone who is not pro-Najib.

  43. Tian Chua – the less mentioned about him, the better.

  44. hutchrun says:

    Ketika ditanya oleh pegawai terbabit tentang tujuan gambar itu dibuat, Tian memberitahu beliau menjawab bahawa gambar tersebut boleh membuatkan orang yang melihatnya berfikir dan membuat keputusan sendiri tentang apa yang dilihat.

    “Saya tidak meletak sebarang nama atau sebarang caption untuk gambar tersebut,” tambahnya.

    http://www.suarakeadilan.com/isi/2007/08/20/tian-tindakan-untuk-sekat-dan-takutkan-pengguna-internet/

  45. Vijay says:

    The French Intelligence Service, the CIA and MIA should have the evidence. The French Intelligence Service and the French Government are duty bound to investigate corruption – the payment of bribes – by French companies in the sale of defence weapons. Who are we kidding here?

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