I wonder what deputy prime minister and defense minister Najib Tun Razak has to say to this. A Pakistani was arrested in New York yesterday for allegedly shipping weapons to Malaysia, including jet parts which may be headed for Iran. Between January 2004 and May 2006, this guy exported (11 times!) to an unidentified company in Malaysia F-5 and F-14 jet parts and Chinook helicopter parts.

This man admitted to federal agents he did not know who the end users were for the stuff that were shipped. He admitted undervaluing the shipments on his export paperwork so that the company could avoid paying Malaysian custom duties. It is widely known that the sole customer of F-14 parts is the Iranian Air Force. These technology is considered “dangerous”.

File photo of F-14 (source)

History repeats, or so it seems…

In April 28, 1987 a letter from M16 agent, Stephan Kock indicated his key role in negotiating a top secret defense deal with Malaysia, arms which would eventually end up in Iran and Iraq.

 

“I have for some months now been in close discussions with the Malaysian Ministry of Defense regarding a major project as yet classified as secret. The time has now come where we feel it very necessary to give you details of this major project which in our view hold significant importance, not only for British defense equipment manufacturer’s, but strategically and politically to.”In view of the official visit by the Malaysian Premier and is defense chiefs in June we would ask for a meeting as soon as convenient…”

 

But Malaysia says it is committed to fighting illegal weapons trade.

Weapons Export Arrest Made in New York

By LARRY NEUMEISTER
The Associated Press
Thursday, July 19, 2007; 9:20 PM

NEW YORK — A Pakistani national was arrested Thursday on allegations he illegally shipped weapons to Malaysia, including fighter jet parts likely to end up in Iran.

Jilani Humayun, 59, was charged with 11 counts of violating the Arms Export Control Act, one count of conspiracy to commit mail fraud and one count of conspiracy to commit money laundering. The charges carry up to 150 years in prison upon conviction.

This frame grab video image taken from WABC TV Eyewitness News shows the scene of a suspected steam explosion near Grand Central Station in Manhattan, Wednesday, July 18, 2007. The New York Police Department said a steam pipe exploded, and had no immediate detail on possible injuries. The NYPD said it does not appear to be terrorism-related. (AP)

In court papers, federal authorities said Humayun formed a company, Vash International Inc., in January 2004 to export defense equipment including tanks, guided missiles and rocket launchers.

They said that he used Vash 11 times between January 2004 and May 2006 to export to an unidentified company in Malaysia F-5 and F-14 fighter jet parts and Chinook helicopter parts.

Prosecutors said Humayun admitted to federal agents that he did not know who the end users were for the items that were shipped. They said he also admitted that he undervalued the shipments on his export paperwork so the company could avoid paying Malaysian customs duties.

U.S. Attorney Michael J. Garcia said it is well documented in public reports that the sole customer of F-14 parts is the Iranian Air Force.

“The details of the crime with which Jilani Humayun is charged are particularly disturbing, as he is alleged to have knowingly shipped technology as dangerous as F-5 and F-14 parts to Malaysia without any regard for the ultimate destination,” Garcia said.

The director of the criminal investigative service in the U.S. Department of Defense, Charles W. Beardall, called the illegal export of U.S. military technology and weapons “one of the most significant and growing threats to our national security.”

U.S. Magistrate Judge Ronald L. Ellis denied a request by a prosecutor Thursday to order Humayun held without bail. He set bond at $500,000 and ordered him detained at his home in Lynbrook after Humayun’s lawyer, Joyce London, described her client as a “true New Yorker” who rarely traveled and had visited Pakistan only once since coming to the United States in 1981.

The defense lawyer said Humayun lived with his wife and son and had to contend with illnesses including a heart condition, diabetes and high blood pressure.

178 responses »

  1. wits0 says:

    Susan, this case may be the reason why all recently retired F14 Tomcats are being literally shredded. They never did the same shredding with previous retired warplanes.

    This brings back recollection of the local Libyan Centrifudge aka the Scuomi scandal where the suspects were found to be “clean” by the police. How convenient!

  2. monsterball says:

    All these are signs of great corruptions plan with no regards to human safetiness…as long as someone can make millions buying so call military warplane spare parts cheaply and declare them on open market values…excluding professional service after sales. They simply don’t care…as long as the the good news is that huge sums can be made so call legally…no one to suspect.
    Under Najib. as Min. Of Defence….six military helicopters have plunged and killed the passengers.
    Any God fearing and noble person will resign…..but not in Malaysia. The Ministers are all mighty and above the laws…..that is UMNO ministers. What better time to vote them out now and give others a chance to mange the country.
    If Indonesia can do it…why not Malaysia?

  3. sofiairdina says:

    Legalize everything lah.. open market. No need to smuggle, no under the table, no coffee money, no back room dealing and no scandal. Can collect tax also. Cant understand why some country can import and some can not. Some can have nuclear weapon and some cannot. Why some country is labelled good and bad. If the weapon is smuggled to Iran than it is bad but if it is sold to Israel than it is ok.

  4. wits0 says:

    Some countries simply can’t be trusted with nuclear weapons. Raving lunatic mullahdom promising (wipe off the map)genocide to Israel disqualifies that unerringly. Moral equivalence is not a convenient blank cheque. In fact, Iran has already provided the casus belli for Israel to stage a preemptive strike. Now the North Korea is seeing a solution but with Iran, there is apparently none.

  5. sofiairdina says:

    Stupid of me not to think of that wits0. Yup, Israel can be trusted with all the sophisticated weapons. The good guy. Guardian of democracy. I heard Iran had just attacked palestine and killed few women and babies. Real terrorist lah that Iran.

    I shudder to think what the world would be like without such good countries. Who is going to stop cuba from operating guantanamo bay? Luckily we have USA…

  6. wits0 says:

    The world is not either black or white. Anyone not incalcitrant knows that. Except true believers in of dysfunctional ideology cannot easily accept that.

  7. silverwolf says:

    “Moral convenience is not a convenient blank cheque. In fact, Iran has already provided the causus belli for Israel to stage a preemptive strike.” wits0
    Yes, wits0, very precise, good point.
    Sofiairdina —
    Your sarcasm about peaceful Iran carries no weight. What about the hundreds and hundreds of rockets that have reigned down month after month on Israel while the world sits around with its thumb up its ass.What about the dead Israeli civilians. I wonder how America would react if Mexican rebels started shelling American towns, and shooting up school bus loads of kids on the U.S. side of the border, demanding that the southwest U.S. be returned to Mexico?.Threatening genocide is a crime.

  8. KTemoc says:

    During the last Israeli-Hezbollah conflict, Israel has maliciously and wantonly destroyed the entire Lebanese infrastructure, way beyond the requirements of military objectives. Israel also killed Lebanese children and women, targeting even clearly marked ambulance and clearly marked UN posts, the latter to intimidate the UN into leaving their post. One Chinese colonel was killed.

    Israel has sown millions of cluster bombs in southern Lebanon, despite international warnings thatr the likely victims would be children.

    Today Israel is no longer little David whom we were told admirably fought Goliath. Israel has grown into a regional superpower bullying its neighbours and stealing their lands, in the same way that a grown up King David stole Uriah’s wife and sent Uriah to be deliberately killed in battle. Israel is as evil as King David.

    That Iran is evil too doesn’t hide the mendacity, avarice and evil of Israel.

  9. KTemoc says:

    And Israel appropriately carries the Star Of David as its national symbol, the symbol of an evil king who lied, f**ked and murdered his way into Kingship and then committed adultery with his most loyal general before having that general murdered.

  10. wits0 says:

    The well known local Blogosphere Israel hater, KTemoc, makes his appearance! LOL!

  11. kittykat46 says:

    I’m afraid KTemoc’s knowledge and logic on international affairs belongs in oo-la-la land.

    I mean, there’s plenty of logical criticism you can throw at Israel, but just read his posting on the Star of David – does this sound like a rational person to you ?

    I have a guy in my office who rants like that – I’ve just stopped trying to refute him.

  12. wits0 says:

    Kittykat46, he is quite tirelessly idiosyncratic at this sort of thing – been at it for years. Hahaha! I think even Hutchrun weary of correcting him.

  13. monsterball says:

    Any decent Min Of Defence will resign…but not in Malaysia.
    What great sense of leadership…..responsiblilities …..integrities and dignities …our ministers are showing to all our young Malaysians to copy and hero worship.

  14. wits0 says:

    UN Secretary General Ban Ki Moon while giving a speech in the Green Zone, Iraq, recently ducked on the sound of mortar rounds exploding outside…..while nobody else together with Maliki moved(Shown clearly in CNN).

    My bet is, Malaysia’s DM would have more than ducked in a similar scenario!

  15. bamboo river says:

    Jet parts can be fabricated anywhere by anyone as long as they have the required machinery to produce.
    Remember the nuclear centrifuge case link to a company linked to a prominent person?
    Well, if you have the machine , say a 4 / 5 Axis CNC…..you can produce anything that USA can make.

  16. KTemoc says:

    good to see my usual critics (against my criticisms of Israel) doing their usual bit to defend either USA, Israel and cohorts.

    Yet can anyone deny religion (extreme rightwing Judaism, fundamentalist Christianity) has been been the prime mover of Israel’s land grab, and its intransigence and US blind support.

    The Star of David was thrown in to demonstrate how appropriate for Israel to adopt the symbol of an evil adulterer and murderer – sorry blokes😉 the truth hurts, in fact its all in your bible hahahahahahahahaaaa

    And shame on you guys for not picking up my error in “…and then committed adultery with his most loyal general before having that general murdered.”

    Should be “… and then committed adultery with his most loyal general’s wife …”

    Palestinians must have at least one Chinese Malaysian to support their cause – we don’t the world to think that Chinese in Malaysia are so dumb as to swallow everything Uncle Sam or Likud-ites shaft down out throats (and for no other reason than they are pissed off with Muslim Melayu, or every staunch …)

  17. kittykat46 says:

    Hi KTemoc,
    I did pick up your whole posting, and took it as published – that’s why I considered it the rantings of an irrational person.

  18. V T says:

    last time, oil fo food…………

    now, arms for the extremist.

    what next taliban?

  19. wits0 says:

    Your established pathological anti-us, anti-Israel rant is quite resembling that of that “intelectual” terrorist, pelanduk, from the old Berita Malaysia group. Except that he is far more arrogant than you. Remember the times when defense analyst Mahadzir used to really taroh him upside down with the opposite view.

  20. KTemoc says:

    😉 good on you kk46 – me just your neighbourhood friendly looney leftwing crazy ranting away like an irrational bloke – mate, you are ruining my hopeful chances with sweeties in the neighbourhood lah – now that’s extreme cruelty😉

  21. wits0 says:

    BR, it’s true that Jet parts can be fabricated up to a point. Have you seen the picture of how an Iranian F14 looks like these days? Looks tired and worn like an aircraft this old. But it still is obviously a very important plane in their air force judging from the fact that they have adapted the Hawk, ground to air missile to be carried by it in lieu of the original Phoenix.

    Susan, I suppose M’sia can turn around and say that it only made that agreement covering small arms – firearms up to machine guns. Do you remember the recent Ahmadinejab’s visit to M’sia? Wonder what was the nature of the bilateral agreement, discussion?

  22. Rajah says:

    Silverwoolf,

    What is your stand on the illegal immigration issue? Republicans and strong vested interests apparently succeeded in keeping labor cheap!

  23. sofiairdina says:

    I like it a lot when somebody could say that the world is neither black nor white. But all the talks are garbage. Still, so many wise people think in term of who is good and who is evil. Who is the terrorist and who is the warrior.

    wits0, for once, let me know what is the meaning of “terrorist?” What is a terrorist state?

    To me terrorists are those who terrorize and a terrorist country is a country which terrorizes another. Maybe a bit simplistic but tell me if I am wrong.

  24. monsterball says:

    Simple metal parts of high technology products seems easy to fabricate…..but tensile strengths and other properties of the said metal needed for perfection may not be available from open market sellers…except from the original manufacturers of the weapons or flying machines.
    It is not that simple to buy spare parts from open market. Those guys producing the weapons will make sure you buy everything from them on maintainances…or else how can they survive without controlling the service after sales business too….which makes the sale an on going dependences from the seller. That have always been the way…these high tech companies got filthy rich. cannot blame them….if we don’t want to advance properly in science and technology in our cou8ntry…..just shallow knowledge learned and start being too irresponsibly smart.
    Trying to be too smart to save money? No Sir!! They are trying to buy parts that maybe 50% cheaper and declare them at full prices….thus millions can be earned as corruptions WITHOUT being detected.

  25. hutchrun says:

    Palestinians must have at least one Chinese Malaysian to support their cause –
    ______________________________________
    No honey dew.
    Wong Chun Wai of the Star is on your side. Tian Chua too. So is the DAP complex. There are many more m`sian chinese who subscribe to that, lapping up the contrary propaganda.
    In fact more than those who think opposite.

  26. hutchrun says:

    wits0:

    The Congressional Human Rights Caucus (CHRC) of the US legislature is set to hold a first-of-its-kind hearing next week on the hundreds of thousands of Jews who were forced to flee their homes in Arab countries as a result of the Arab-Israeli conflict. The July 19 hearing in Washington, D.C., under the heading “Jewish Refugees from Arab Countries: Truth, Justice, and Reconciliation,” is to be hosted by the CHRC in conjunction with B’nai Brith International and Justice for Jews from Arab Countries. It will be the first time that the US Congress will hear testimony on the issue of Jewish refugees from Arab countries.

  27. monsterball says:

    sofiairdina…In real sense of the word ‘terrorist’..you got it right…..but you must not ignore why terrorists or freedom fighters which I like to believe they are emerges.
    The power of doing evils by US government combined with the best propergander advertising work to implant in minds of others to believe what they say are always true…..have been going on for decades.
    So…sofiaridina alais jeancumlatly…..please think deeply….how did you learn the word terrorists and completely ignore freedom fighters concept.
    Same on th word ”piratcy” created by US to catch look-a-like entertainment stuffs ….like music and movies. Those who coined the word are actually the biggest crooks cheating performers….song writers….lyric writers…art and craft designers wholesale daily. They do not pay royalties too….yet they catch so call crooks.
    Even if they are right…a product costing them RM5 to produce…they want to sell for RM75 or more….thus infect those selling copies are helping the poor to enjoy what rich blokes can afford and you maybe surprise…it also indirectly help popularised that particular singer or actors.
    So please don’t be fooled by words coined by Americans.

  28. hutchrun says:

    Oops I omitted this but it seems like bad news for KTemoc and similar birds:

    The CHRC hearing will also include a screening of The Forgotten Refugees, produced by the David Project. The film is a documentary about the mass exodus of almost one million Jews from Arab countries.

    The July 19 congressional hearing on Jewish refugees has an immediate, practical goal of providing US congressmen with preliminary information ahead of voting on House Resolution 185 and Senate Resolution 85. According to the proposed legislation, the US president would be obligated to instruct all official representatives of the United States that “explicit reference to Palestinian refugees be matched by a similar explicit reference to Jewish and other refugees, as a matter of law and equity.” (See Senate Res 85 for the full text.)

  29. hutchrun says:

    Btw, a friend of mine has been looking for a Star Of david all over town, but can`t seem to find one.
    Anyone knows where?

  30. hutchrun says:

    ..how did you learn the word terrorists and completely ignore freedom fighters concept
    ____________________________________
    Darn. That sounds like support for tamil tigers to operate in m`sia. Way to go, bro.

  31. Rah-rah says:

    Hmmm…. do you think this is the cause why Altantuya was murdered, cos she know too much? As what her father said…

  32. hutchrun says:

    Of course. The comission takers wanted to save on the money, then when she threatened to blab…

  33. sofiairdina says:

    Exactly the point I was trying to make Monty. How could all the smart people fall so easily to the definition of terrorist by certain quarters. Whenever uncle sam said you are a terrorist, you are doomed because there would be so many paople who would be more than willing to sing and dance to the same tune. It does not matter if they looked like monkeys parroting a baboon as long as uncle sam approves it.

  34. hutchrun says:

    Whenever uncle sam said you are a terrorist, you are doomed..
    _________________________________________
    Pakistan says the baluchis fighting for indepent Baluchistan are terrorists; China says the Uighurs fighting for independence are terrorists; India says the Indian Muslims fighting for independence are terrorists; Najib will soon call those who say m`sia is not an islamic state as terrorists.
    So what`s new.
    Oh yes. Hishamudin taking out his kieris soon:
    http://www.bharian.com.my/m/BHarian/Saturday/Mukadepan/20070721085027/Article/

  35. Sarah Verghis says:

    KTmoc: You mentioned that Magen David aka star of David is from the bible and is a sign of King David..and where did you get that information? Which part of bible mentions star of David as King David’s emblem?
    http://www.menorah.org/starofdavid.html

  36. wits0 says:

    Sofia, all the talks are indeed garbage for whosoever reserve bathos only for their own side(through one sort of linkage or another). Human beings of the closed mind types sees nothing to be ashame of to believe others are more evil than themselves. Such can hardly ever evolve enough to be actually fair minded.

    See the speck of dust in your other’s eye but miss the log in your own. Jesus at least repeated that old warning which must have been known before his time.

    People whose philosophy/pedgogy insists on believing in war as being holy to this day and time must necessarily be viewed as the foremost suspect in engaging in terrorism as compare with another society without such a belief.

    Hutch, I’m aware of the CHRC report and I’m sure KTemoc would rather be oblivious of, or simply reject such a thing.

  37. wits0 says:

    So, uncle Sam and the IDF is so bad but I haven’t heard of the GIs or the IDF using and hiding behind children as human shield.

  38. hutchrun says:

    KTemoc would rather be oblivious …
    _______________________________
    Yeah. Terry Pratchett has `foul ol Ron` on a lighter note:
    http://www.terrypratchettbooks.org/the-chosen-one/part-eight.html

  39. wits0 says:

    Sarah Vergis, its not unknown about this propensity of KTemoc to jump to his own idiosyncratic interpretation of things as wrt the Star of David.

    In any case he is not well versed at all in the esoteric nature and cosmology of different belief system. Of the Kabbalist background, his knowledge can only be zilch.

  40. wits0 says:

    Oh, I haven’t forgotten that KTemoc also previously(circa 2003) likened the Mehdi army of Fullajah to the noble defenders of the Alamo. Hahahahahaha!

    I don’t recall that the defenders of the Alamo ever had torture rooms and mutilate women.

  41. silverwolf says:

    Rajah — Immigration issue is complex, and gets the law and order crew slathering at the muzzle. Guy I’m supporting says if its illegal, he’s against it. Haha. Try deporting all the Mexicans, and the country would collapse. Yes, cheap slave labour keeps inflation down so Dem and Rep collectivists can say ” See, our illegal Fed Reserve (actually U.S. central bank, but technically private corp.) can control inflation in this new funny-money economy.” Deport all illegal aliens and inflation would skyrocket in U.S., so Keynsians have vested interest in maintaining current system. I like Mexicans very much. Was round them for decades when I lived in L.A. Humanised, family-oriented people. Never feel afraid when around them. Nod hello to whiteman or Korean on the street in L.A. and they look at you as if your insane. Latinos almost always smile and nod back. Hard working people, though Whitey Wonderbreads always talking about how lazy they are. Usual racist scat. Latinos have strong sense of pride. Only violent when that is wounded. Very courteous. And Mexico doesn’t have the death penalty!

    Few years ago when some Repubs wanted to “crack down on illegal immigration”, first complaints came from Repub-owned meat packers in Repub states that use cheap Latino labour in their death-camp meat packing plants in Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, which specialise in murdering the 150,00 cows and 350,000pigs that Americans require to get through 24 hours. When those people complain, the issue shifts away from immigration.

  42. hutchrun says:

    Democrats Who Want You Sued For Reporting Terrorism
    http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/188762.php

  43. silverwolf says:

    wits0 — I like your prose style very much. Sentences have a beautiful formality to them. Logical thoughts placed in precise sentences. And no American high school student would know what the word bathos means, let alone every use such a word in the course of their lifetime. Fills me full of pathos.

  44. wits0 says:

    Thanks Silverwolf, the web dictionary and thesaurus, online or otherwise helps alot. No need to rush tediously for those hard copies.

  45. monsterball says:

    Everyone is talking about the present situations and coined words they learned from the devils.
    One totally forget to look back 50 years and trace it slowly to present situations.
    Perhaps reading and living through that period have different interpretations.
    Money…briberies and total interferences to upset cultures…races…and force their way of life..rules and regulations by barbarians to most cultured countries…all done in the name of being international policemen…but infect is the only way for them to survived….with wars and tensions.
    These barbarians using their cunningness to successfully buy the greedy and corrupted leaders of small countries….especially from the Middle East and right here at our doorsteps.
    So….what’s new….like commentators are saying…yet they are blinded by the real truths of all evils that men do to truly pray MONEY stolen..cheated or taken away like broad daylight robbers…as their God.
    It it not time we look at our own country and do something about it in next eLection?

  46. silverwolf says:

    I noticed you folks like to talk religion a lot, so I would like to ask the “religious people” a question. How many of you know the language of the holy books of your religion well enough that you can read those books fluently in that language, and if not, why?, since it seems axiomatic to me that you should be able to. When Christians here try to start quoting and discussing scripture with me I ask them if they know Greek, and Latin, and, since they’re often quoting the Old Testament, Hebrew. They will go on for hours discussing a Hebrew text, that was translated hundreds of years ago into English. Who can vouch for the quality of the translater? And if one can’t go through the comparatively simple, though arduous, task of learning the language of ones holy book, how can we trust the believer’s profession of ardent faith in that religion? What percentage of Malaysian Muslims do you think know how to read the Arabic of the Koran? What percentage of Hindus can read the Sanskrit of the Gitas? Of Confucians to read the Chinese of his teachings? I’m very curious. And by the way, Rajah, there are two “o”s in my webname only on nights when there is a full moon.

  47. kittykat46 says:

    Hi Silverwolf,
    The Chinese language is unique in that it is essentially the same language from more than 2,000 years ago. Of course it has evolved, and the script has been modified many times over the centuries. So the writings of Confucious are available in basically the same language they were originally written in. And they were actual writings – Confucious was a learned scholar. But to be clear, Confucianism is a philosophy of life, not a religion. He was a man, only the Chinese people chose to deify him.

    The actual language that Buddha spoke is not known for certain. And none of the teachings were written down for centuries. They were passed down as oral recitations. The oldest writings on Buddhism are in Pali and Sanskrit. Both dead languages, but serious Buddhist scholars and priests learn the language, so there is a still a lively level of learning in Pali and Sanskrit language. Everything I read on Buddhism is in English and Chinese – obviously all translations.

    That’s why I caution people generally no to take religious texts too literarily. Even the oldest available texts are still often goodness knows how many steps removed from the Founder’s original teachings.
    But when I mention this to believers – be it Buddhists, Christians, Muslims, I often get dirty looks as if I’m uttering some blasphemy.

  48. silverwolf says:

    Thats right, kittykat46, its hard work for them, so they don’t want to do it. Better to stick to a strong emotion, often maudlin sentimentality, get lost in it and call it faith. Or they take the path of spiritual pride and become and official of their religion : rabbi, priest, imam, headmonk, maharishi. They have a vested interest in perpetuating that title — and that is ego. The chess player more interested in having the title of chess master , rather than just playing and enjoying the game.

  49. silverwolf says:

    And forgive me for dishonoring Confucianism by calling it a religion instead of a philosophy. When I was a kid a had the Modern Library edition of his teachings. But I must admit that when I later read Lao-Tse and Chuang-Tse, I really went wild for their philosophy. Like first hearing Bob Dylan.

  50. silverwolf says:

    By the way, being new to this commenting on a page process, what happens when the page runs out of space when that little hatched square in the lower right part of the screen hits the box with the downpointing arrow. Does Ms. Loone start a new page?

  51. KTemoc says:

    Sarah, I remember you who wrote that pro-Israeli letter to MKINI😉

    Anyway, this was what I wrote above:

    “…The Star of David was thrown in to demonstrate how appropriate for Israel to adopt the symbol of an evil adulterer and murderer – sorry blokes the truth hurts, in fact its all in your bible “

    The emphasis was on “… of an evil adulter and murderer …” Indeed, the bible tells us that David was an adulterer and murderer, and that’s evil

    dun mind wits0 and hutchrunner even Rajan R – they old fencing partners😉

    hahahhaha as if the Congressional CHRC is something unique when the US govt has been so biased that it has been said US foreign policy for the ME has to be approved by Tel Aviv (sorry, not Jerusalem hahahhahahaha)

  52. monsterball says:

    silverwolf…..You are obviously making it difficult for majorities humans to embrace a religion.
    It sounds like learning various languages is your cup of tea.
    One need not master the original language….since ALL relgious doctrines teaches nothing but all good.
    Great faith and commitments to be a good follower is what matters most…BUT….many are religious fanatics and try to propergate their religion is almighty and the only one…others will go to hell…if not surrender their souls to kowtow to their religion…this or that….those extremists should read and know ALL religions before talking about religions….not necessary to master the original languages like you say.
    So my first advise to all…..including you is not master the languages….but learn comparative religions. Thereafter….I like to know how on Earth they know so much according to this or that hearsays…or willing to surrender themselves like age old stoneage illitrate people…instead of using their educated minds to fully understand what it is all about. They pick and choose one sentence…get all worked up and read the message of their good books totally wrong!!
    Let there be a basic understandings that all religions teaches good..but their teachers maybe the main culprits to poison and control their minds of followers…concluding theirs is almighty..the one and one to save them from hell. What bloody nonsense is that.

  53. dlquill says:

    hai , i was just thinking, maybe we use proton to manufacture the fighter plane parts it can turn it around. proton boleh!!

  54. monsterball says:

    You mean make toy figter planes for kids…diguill.
    Proton can’t even make decent cars right now….and when they did….they forgot who was behind the sense…the Japanese partner.
    Proton is so proud the Japanese were gone…but to me…that’s ungrateful and cunning.
    Now in deep shit trouble again….crying for help again…..and when everything is okay….how many times we will see same ungratefulness being shown. I suspect Volkswagen want complete control by shares and management or else no deal.
    VW is no fool!!
    Poor Pak Lah have to clean up all the dirt….and before that …the main culprit TDM make sure he accuses PM before he is proven a lousy PM himself.
    Proton….you say? What about Straits Times Press making paper plane fighters. Afterall…Japanese have been living in paper houses for centuries..very cheap..so fighters plane get blown off…one person die and the cost to buid another..fast and cheap……hahahahahahaha

  55. silverwolf says:

    Part of this discussion on the importance of learning language for religious texts came from thoughts that grew after reading the back-and -forth between KT emoc and Sarah Verghis on the term “Mogen David”, for it became apparent that KTemoc has been skipping his Hebrew school classes. Mogen David means “shield of David” not “star of David”.
    Correction for politicos to my statement that Sen. Russ Feingold and a few other Demos voted against Patriot Act first time it came up. Sen Feingold was only U.S. senator to vote against communist Patriot Act. Also on Clinton returning to Arkansas to sign death sentence and be on hand for the murder of man that anti-death penalty beautiful people said was mentally retarded and therefore inelligible under our law for death penalty. When they served this man his last meal of hamburger and french fries (chips in UK) he said to the guard, “Just leave the hamburger, I’ll have the fries tomorrow.” Bill Clinton === what a piece of ordure!

  56. silverwolf says:

    Flash — just heard we will have a President Cheney for a few hours because Bush has to have a colonoscopy, and it cases like that the VP temporarily becomes prez. Perhaps now we’ll find out where all that gold missing from Fort Knox is?

  57. monsterball says:

    Then make it simple and explain what Mogen David means to those guys…silverwolf
    I wonder why American politics are creeping into Susan’s blog.
    Who cares about Dicky or Bushy.
    Lets talk illegal weapons ….as the post suggests.
    Do anyone know how weapons are smuggled into Malaysia…like guns..c4…through neighboring countries?
    How they do it….by what ways? Those informations will benefit our country and to the government.
    Anyone??

  58. silverwolf says:

    But the news that most warms the cockles of my heart is that concerning blogger freedom which after all is the main issue in the Nat Tan case. Google, that collaborator in evil with communist China by agreeing to censor bloggers, had its stock drop 5.9% yesterday in one day, a BIG drop. You see, the Big Guy Upstairs sees immorality. What is said here, is heard there. Hope these fascist-lovers who bought Google stock go bankrupt. As they say in the market, “Bulls make money, and bears make money, but pigs get slaughtered”. I hear the American KuKluxKlan has given its annual “Fascists of Freedom” award to Malaysian government. Also awarded its Religious Tolerance medal to UMNO. By the way, can you own books in Malaysia, or is it illegal? I figured the latter.

  59. monsterball says:

    Let me start off…..small hand guns maybe smuggled in by putting one in a nice baked caked.
    Some maybe tied ….UNDER the vehicles.
    Bullets maybe stuffed into cans of dried food stuffs….with that stuffs on the top of the can….if imigration inspect them
    Come on…..use your imaginations.

  60. monsterball says:

    What a bunch of rubbish are you talking about silverwolf.
    Is this your interpretation of freedom of speech…to keep on writing nonsense?

  61. silverwolf says:

    Monsterball—“then make it simple and explain…” What a killjoy. Taking all the fun out of complexity. Prolixity is bliss.

  62. Rajah says:

    Silverwolf,

    On the illegal immigration issue:

    It is sad that the United States having taken the rest of the world on the issue of human rights is itself at fourth place among countries with human rights abuses!

    DHS or Department of Homeland Security is recently deporting undocumented workers as I choose them rather than illegal aliens, rounding them off to detention centers for deportation – and among them are parents of U.S. citizens born sons and daughters who being separated from their children, and among them are law abiding hard working people who have been here longer than 15 years, having carved a live for themselves and their families building businesses which employ Americans and contributing to the U.S. economy. In many of these cases DHS has tricked them into appearing in their offices by letters asking them to appear for interviews for the green card. Tell me who would pass on that opportunity having waited in many cases for their green cards for as long as 23 years?? You remember the Mexican woman who has had to retreat with her U.S. citizen 10 year old son to her church to escape from ICE (to those unfamiliar with the term, this is the enforcement arm of DHS). She has been living there out of fear for months within the safe confines of the Church and has had to send her U.S. citizen 10-year old to appear in the Mexican Congress to ask for the Mexican President to intervene. Talking about the Mexican government rather than its people, why should the Mexican government want to stop the flow of Mexicans braving the heat of the desert ( and in many cases dying in the process) to come to the United States, shot at by red neck vigilantes with time on their hands and even by corrupt border patrol agents? The U.S. provides employment to their people and remit billions to Mexico annually.

    It is the hypocrisy of it all that makes me wanna puke!

    The truth is corporate and middle class America needs the undocumented labor to run its factories, to build the houses they need, mow the lawns of their homes, to do landscaping and to take care of their children, and to deliver their food (in many cases Chinese – there are many Chinese take-outs dotted all over New York/New Jersey owned and run by Chinese from Mainland China. There are restaurants selling ethnic food in NY and NJ owned and run by Malaysians many of whom are students though some among them may be visa overstayers). You remember the Chinese guy who chose to risk death and died in the process in some elevator somewhere in NYC not wanting to press the emergency button for fear that he would be discovered and arrested by ICE and deported? He was in the building to deliver food!

    Few people realize that the illegal immigration issue is not just a Mexican issue or a Latino issue. There are many Irish illegal aliens in NYC but we hardly hear about them – and guess why?? Who among the politicians would take on the Irish?

    The Republicans made sure that the bill relating to any proposal to provide a legal pathway to U.S. citizenship to some of the qualified undocumented workers who have been here for many years and have developed roots here (my estimate is a mere 10-15% would qualify for it out of some 12 million or more already in the country) did not make it to the floor of the U.S. Senate.

    This is the height of hypocrisy – at its worst.

    Malaysia too has its own illegal issue but it has never divided the Malaysian Parliament because it has never been discussed – even by the opposition mainly Chinese party the DAP, a political party that takes pride in being the party which works for working class Malaysia irrespective of ethnicity and religion.

    Illegals in Malaysia are mainly from neighboring Indonesia, a country separated by a narrow body of water. We see here a Cuban-like scenario except that Malaysia is not a party to the United Nations Convention on Refugees 1954 and has refused to be a signatory to the Refugee Protocol of 1962. Cubans who braved the sea and are able to set foot on mainland United States chased by U.S. Customs are automatically given asylum and given a green card. Indonesians made their trips across the narrow Straits of Malacca in overcrowded sampans organized by the equivalent of the Mexican coyotes who cared nothing for their safety. Many drowned in the crossing. No one knows how many. No one cares.

    What was a mere trickle in the late 70s has now turned to waves of illegal immigration. Indonesians like the hard working Mexicans in the U.S. worked in the country’s construction industry once dominated by Chinese workers, in palm oil estates gathering palm oil fruits which find their way to the United States, and their women as domestic maids looking after Malaysian children and cleaning their homes, washing their cars. Many of them have their passports confiscated by the coyotes or their employers and have had to work hard often without pay for years apparently in an attempt to defray the costs involved in arranging their trips to Malaysia. Most of them are uneducated unlike those who make their way to the United States – and there are easily a million or two of them in the U.S. As a result in Malaysia without the protection of human rights groups who are more interested in fighting for the likes of Nathaniel Tan, and security afforded to them by United Nations or even by their embassies, there have been unimaginable human rights abuses, cruelty and torture perpetrated by Malaysians upon fellow human beings who merely want to work for their meals and their lodgings and to support themselves and their families back home. Indonesians like the Filipinos and the Mexicans remit millions of dollars back to their home countries. In the case of Filipinos because of their better control of the English language, there are many of them working all over the world in countries as far flung as Korea and Japan, Hong Kong, Taiwan and more recently in Mainland China and the Middle East – even in war torn Iraq, and Europe and the United States. The vast majority of them are not criminals and do not even have a driving ticket to their names!

    The attempt to criminalize undocumented workers in the U.S. recently is deplorable to say the least. There are criminals among whites, black, yellow or brown.

  63. monsterball says:

    yea yea yea silverwolf…..talk to the point and about Malaysia…or anything that interest us in Malaysia.
    Forget your bombastic words…..youngsters don’t understand a word you are saying.
    killjoy? SORRY lah…..not intended to kill your joyful mood…..but please stop talking shit stuffs.

  64. Rajah says:

    Silverwolf,

    Can you imagine CNN wanting to outdo FOX over the issue of illegal immigration? Every time I see Lou Dobb’s face on my TV screen, I wish I could go out there purchase a magnum .378 and blow his brains out. Yes, I know he has a Mexican for a wife which makes me want to blow his brains out twice over – one for being such a hypocrite and the other for allowing himself to be used as a tool in CNN’s competition for ratings.

  65. Rajah says:

    Silvewoolf, you’d do well to ignore monsterball who is probably suffering from ADS.

  66. monsterball says:

    Rajah not only long long winded…but talk cock like silverwolf.
    Both of you should be great friends.
    What is ADS Rajah? Don’t try to be too smart….spell it out!!

  67. monsterball says:

    What the shit you both talk about American stuffs here….promoting both of you were “has been” journalists from far away land?

  68. monsterball says:

    Ignore monsterball you say Rajah?
    Are you NUTS!!!!

  69. monsterball says:

    Your shit stuffs are a pain in the arse for readers….do you know that Rajah?
    Ignore monsterball…you say???

  70. monsterball says:

    Everyone is IGNORING you and silverwolf…..two stupid idiots talking cock and bragging how much they know about USA politics.
    Hi show what brains you both have…talk SMUGGLING OF WEAPONS!!!

  71. monsterball says:

    Look at that sickening Rajah talking shit stuffs!!
    He even try to prove he knows more law that others. Now he wants to tell everyone he knows USA more than all of us.
    There is nothing Rajah do not know…..that’s what he is telling all of us…yet….if you read carefully…they are just hallow words….yesterdays news and his law is ADC..[do you know what that is Rajah?|
    Ignore monsterball???

  72. Rajah says:

    ADS= Attention Deficit Syndrome. I hope that helps.

  73. silverwolf says:

    Raja — excellent analysis of immigration question. But I feel there is a grain (or large boulder) of truth in monsterballs plaints. This page is, after all, supposed to be on the Malaysian arms trade and Malaysian issues, so I feel it is unfair for us to hog the podium, talking about American politics, which is a complete waste of time. But perhaps Ms. Loone could start two new pages — one where we can discuss U.S. politics and its impact on Malaysia, since I think that who is President of U.S does have impact on whole world, unfortunately. And page where we can discuss pure economic theory, which I think is much more important that politics. Economics drove the British out of India, not politics. So I will shut up monsterball, but I leave you with one prediction: Friday saw the beginning of a large downmove in U.S. and world stock markets that will have quite an impact.
    Monsterball — I thank you for your kind chastisement. And now I will remain silent.

  74. monsterball says:

    silverwolf is …reasonable and considerate.
    Pariah Rajah now wants to prove he is a doctor ..besides a lawyer and a has been US journalist.
    When one wants to get attention…..make sure you get the attentions from all walks of life…young and old…..not keep bragging and talking totally out of the main subject…and worst of all….sickening US matters …that really means nothing to us here.
    At least silverwolf have been gentleman enough to admit he is out of order at this site….and I thank him for that sincerely.
    Pariah Rajah wants to analyse me…..when he is waiting for me to tell him what ADC means. Since he behave so damn smart….let him keep on guessing.
    I will be at the back of him….if he shoots out his idiotic long sickening messages ….that do not support what Susan posted at all. This is SPAMMING!!
    So Pariah Rajah…Talk to the subject and don’t mislead others to your nonsense.
    I hope it helps you to know exactly how I feel about you too.
    Now you prove me wrong…you are not spamming with your nonsense.

  75. monsterball says:

    silverwolf…..You are most welcome to talk any subject at the Free Speech Zone.
    Susan have infect created what you want. Just click to the “Free Speech Zone” and you will find a bunch of highly intelligent guys there to talk anything you want to talk.
    Pariah Rajah knows that….yet he chooses current subjects to throw everyone out of the real subject. He has done that many times.
    If he goes to the Free Speech Zone…I will stop calling him pariah.
    Otherwise…he started to insult me….then watch monsterball hit back…if you so wish.
    GO TO FREE SPEECH ZONE AND TALK ALL YOU WANT ONE ANY SUBJECT….YOU BRAGGART!!!

  76. kittykat46 says:

    Hey Guys,
    I’ve started a post on the subject of US/ Israel in Susan’s Free Speech Zone. My post is deliberately controversial.

    Comments are Welcome🙂

  77. wits0 says:

    Monty, Silverwolf is a studied person. He backs up his statements in such a way that they are not ravings(unlike ole and immutable KTemoc’s).

    “Rajah” evolves from “Raja’, maybe morphed into “ASP” and “ASP Mastor” on a full Moon.😀

  78. Mason From Kuching says:

    Rajah is the cynosure for having shared his insight view of the Altantuya’s murder trial. No offence to anyone, but you are the MAN, Rajah.

  79. monsterball says:

    Great kittykat!! Now lets see pariah Rajah…who said will put his robe aside…..hinting he is a lawyer…talk US stuffs there. Lets see he stops telling what he read from magazines and talk read life economic…social and political situations in America….actual situation there…as if he knows.
    Silverwolf….Don’t run away. Lets talk there. I have been dealing with US businesses for donkey years and it was my second home….before….so I am all ears to hear you speak of the latest US …and I hope to contribute…..but watch out Rajah….he knows next to nothing….but blare out old stuffs and then when someone tell him off …he learns from that person….but pretend he is not learning. That is his style…a true empty vessel makes the most noise commentator…yet want to brag this or that.

  80. monsterball says:

    yes witsO…I HAVE HIGH RESPECT FOR SILVERWOLF AND WILL HATE TO LOOSE SUCH A GOOD COMMENTATOR…AND FUTURE FRIEND.
    Rajah????…….eeerrrrr

  81. monsterball says:

    Yes Mason..since Rajah is a lawyer…his opinions on the murder case carry weights. Aboveall…he was speaking to the post put out by Susan…..but he is a real braggart!!

  82. monsterball says:

    okay kittykat has really put out a wonderful message at the ‘Free Speech Zone” for all of us to talk US policies.
    I am waiting for Rajah and silverwolf comments and will post after them.

  83. hantutelur says:

    *monty, thought you restrict your swearing in the free speech zone only… cari pasal again, heh?*

  84. Rajah says:

    Silverwolf,

    I asked that question to you earlier as I was curious as to what your stand is on the illegal immigration issue as I have the gut feeling that you’re not going to remain long on this blog.

    There are many Malaysians working illegally in the U.S. and the monster(ball) that he is, may be interested to know that there are large Kampong Melayus in New York State if not NYC. Many from Malaysia are visa overstays – F1 student visas and B1/B2 tourist overstays. Silverwolf, when you are in NYC the next time, go to Queens and there you will find Malaysians working in restaurants and hair salons. These are all hardworking Chinese Malaysians who have been marginalized in their own country and have come to the States to find work and to save before they return to open up businesses and purchase their first homes, in a country where their own government discriminates against them and where racism is institutionalized.

    I explored the issue of illegal immigration as part of the broader issue on free speech and human rights which is what I believe Susan’s blog is all about. Malaysia has its own problem about illegal immigrants who now number no less than 2 million out of a total population of some 24 million.

    The time has come for us to obey Monsterball’s command lest his wrath disrupts the flow, by turning directly to the topic of this thread – which is secrets arms dealing involving the Malaysian government which has recently led to the murder of a native of Mongolia.

    So far arm smuggling is not the occupation of choice among the poor, working class Malaysians you see in NYC, Boston, Buffalo, cities and towns in the mid-west where Malaysian students are mostly found, and San Francisco and LA where you once lived and Seattle.

    I once shared a drink with an American arms smuggler in a pub in Damansara Heights in Kuala Lumpur many years ago quite by accident really at a time when arms deals as a topic of interest never made it to the media. He did not look anything like a CIA operative. Perhaps that explained why he felt the need to boast of his connections with the Malaysian government. At the time Najib the current Deputy Prime Minister had recently returned from his studies in U.K. and was heading human resource in Petronas. the nation’s oil corporation.

    Soon after that in the 80s when Mahathir took over as DPM and then PM, arms deals took on special significance as they offered easy opportunities to make millions in commissions first to fund UMNO in the run-up to the general elections held every five years. How else could UMNO fund their activities and win general elections? These election campaigns are nothing much more than vote-buying for the politicians and UMNO. In the U.S. campaign funds have to be declared, have limits and must be legal. Not so in Malaysia.

    In the early 80s Mahathir as Prime Minister and Najib then Minister of Defense negotiated the biggest arms deal with the British government running in the billions of sterling pounds. Mahathir was challenged by a local tabloid in London about the secret deals being made i.e. the ‘sweeteners’ thrown in to smooth the transactions, suggesting massive corruption. He threatened to sue the tabloid – but of course he reneged on his promise for obvious reasons.

    Why is there a need to use brokers in the purchase of defense equipment if not to conceal the money flow? Why does the Malaysian government goes on its shopping spree for expensive defense equipment during an election year??

  85. Rajah says:

    I must congratulate Susan for attracting so many hits surpassing those of Lim Kit Siang who has his own political blog.

  86. Rajah says:

    “Rajah is the cynosure for having shared his insight view of the Altantuya’s murder trial. No offence to anyone, but you are the MAN, Raja” Mason from kuching

    Thanks for the compliment but I am not a lawyer or a police officer – just a person who has a passion for the law and law enforcement.

    I am only a transient on this blog for the duration of the trial. I do not want readers like Monsterball to feel that he has to blackball me and I prefer to make a gracious exit when the time comes.

    The only person who can make me do that is the blog owner and since Monsterball feels comfortable seeing himself as the resident gate keeper I feel I should not deny him the pleasure.

  87. Sarah Verghis says:

    KTemoc: You haven’t answered my question, instead you are assuming that I am pro israeli.

    You keep harping that King David is adulterer and a murderer..
    in your own words “The emphasis was on “… of an evil adulter and murderer …” Indeed, the bible tells us that David was an adulterer and murderer, and that’s evil”

    but what has that got to do with the Jewish flag or magen David? Where has it mentioned in the bible that, the emblem is from the ‘said’ king of David?
    Unless you can prove that Magen David is King David’s emblem beyond doubt,I don’t see how you can associate the emblem and the guilt and the evil state.
    Guilty by association does require proof!

  88. Satan says:

    An adulterer and murderer may be evil personified. But let’s not insult Lucifer.

  89. monsterball says:

    hantutelur and pariah Rajah combining…are we not surprised!!
    Look at pariah putting words in my mouth…. saying I am blackmailing him. He sure talk cock and bull well.
    Both these sickening guys talk nonsense most of the time. Go read all their stuffs and hantutelur is a one screw loose person.
    His moods changes very fast.

  90. monsterball says:

    hi pariah rajah..I never said I am the owner of the blog.
    Trying your cheap stunt to make me say wrong things”? Who do you think you are talking to…an idiot like you?
    Go keep posting…who stops you?
    But stay focus to the subject.
    Since you love to talk US matters…now is your chance….why not go there as kittykat invited all of us to battle at Free Speech Zone.
    Why chicken out?
    Stop trying to be too cunning and smart.

  91. monsterball says:

    hahahahahaha….Susan has more visitors than LKS…..and Rajah is surprised.
    No …he just wants to sweet talk something to blog owner lah….you know how a snake operates…witsO?

  92. monsterball says:

    hi Rajah…sliverwolf is at Free Speech Zone.
    Go talk all you want there….anything!!!
    But stick to the subject at each site posted by Susan.

  93. KTemoc says:

    Sarah

    You like those pro-zionists have refused to read my words and attempted to twist it for your won edification: you wrote:

    “but what has that got to do with the Jewish flag or magen David? Where has it mentioned in the bible that, the emblem is from the ’said’ king of David?
    Unless you can prove that Magen David is King David’s emblem beyond doubt,I don’t see how you can associate the emblem and the guilt and the evil state.
    Guilty by association does require proof!”

    Firstly I refer you to my original mention where I did NOT say the Bible mention the Star (is that too difficult for you to read?) but rather, David’s murderous and adulterous evil.

    The Jews associate David with Magen David (or, as it is popularly termed ‘Star of David’ and adopted by the State of Israel)

    You are being disingenous by arguing that the national symbol of Israel is not the Star of David. As a doctor, you should refrain from such childish stunts – this will be the last time I will indulge such silly arguments.

    Guilt of David is provided by your Bible. Guilt of Israel is seen by its Nazi-like actions against the Palestinians, namely officially sanctioned assassinations, ghetto-risation of Palestinians, group punishments where houses of families of a suspect were demolished (guilt by association), the evil destruction fo Lebanon’s infrastructure with no military relevance, callous disregard for collateral damage where innocent women and children were killed, robbing of Palestinain land by force of might, even targeted killing of a quadraplegic (shame on Israel), Sabra & Shatila, Deir Yassin – the list goes.

    Exactly like what the Nazis did to their European kinfolks, some of whom were their ancestors or relatives. The Israelis by their cruel evil actions have wiped clean the slate of guilt and consequential obligation of support for their “children” because of the Holocaust, though we should remember the “actual” victims of evil.

    Ironically, their Israeli descendants and kinfolks are equally evil.

    And this was what Rabbi Sharaga Simmon said of the Star (or Shield, if you like, tho’ Star is the popular description) of David:

    “Through our long and often difficult history, we have come to the realization that our only hope is to place our trust in God. The Magen David (literally “Shield of David”) has six-points, which symbolize that God rules over the universe and protects us from all six directions: North, South, East, West, Up and Down. A similar symbolism is found in reading the “Shema.” (“Code of Jewish Law” O.C. 61:6)

    Thus, King David used this six-pointed symbol to signify that the Almighty shields him in war. (Rabbi Moshe Feinstein – “Igrot Moshe” O.C. 3:15)

    […]

    So whether it is a blue star waving proudly on a flag, or a yellow star in a concentration camp, the Star of David stands as a reminder that for the Jewish people… in God we trust”

    I don’t have to assume you are pro-Israel – it showed in your letter to M-KINI.

    So, open your Christian eyes and accord the downtrodden Arabs (some of whom are Christians too) your Christian charity.

  94. hutchrun says:

    downtrodden Arabs (some of whom are Christians too)
    __________________________________
    Haha. Like the `christian Wong Chun Wai` rhapsoding lyrics on the same.
    Those christian arabs are finding out soon enuff:
    December 07, 2006
    Christians Flee Growing Islamic Fundamentalism in the Holy Land

    “The plight of Christian Arabs remaining in the PA is, in part, attributable to the adoption of Muslim religious law in the PA Constitution. Israel, by contrast, safeguards the religious freedom and
    holy places of its Christian (and Muslim) citizens.”
    http://www.jcpa.org/JCPA/Templates/ShowPage.asp?DBID=1&LNGID=1&TMID=111&FID=377&PID=0&IID=1371

  95. monsterball says:

    hi KTemoc……my one time POPE….hahahahaha….Long time no hear..no talk.
    So nice to see you battle vigourously.
    Right or wrong…does not matter…as long as we can talk and shake hands again.
    hahahahaha….You are caught up with the star of David stuff?
    Go see again…’Fiddler On the Roof” movie and leave the star to blessed heavenly bodies.
    The only star I know was when Mike Tyson was knocked out good and proper…poor soul….must have seen alot of stars that we fortunate people cannot see…hahahahahaha

  96. hutchrun says:

    The idea behind God Knows is simple. David, King of Israel, author of the psalms, recounts his life while on his deathbed, in the voice of a twentieth century American Jewish patriarch. To work, this has to be done extremely well, as is it no easy thing to write a narration that convincingly comes across as being from the mind of a man recognised as one of the greatest poets in history.
    [ ]
    An example of the type of joke used is when David tells his generals to “send a wire”, only to be reminded that telegrams haven’t been invented yet (the joke being not only that they don’t exist, but also that every one knows what they are).
    [ ]
    ..but David really had a lot of grief from his – the death of Bathsheba’s first child, slain by God as punishment for David’s sin in sleeping with another man’s wife and sending her husband to his death; the rape of his daughter Tamar by his son Amnon; the rebellion of his son Absalom. (And Heller adds the stupidity and humourlessness of his son Solomon – “Schlomo, that schmuck”.) However, to Heller, David’s relationship with God was the most significant in his life, and though he makes David make light of it, it is clear that the character regrets the withdrawal of God’s voice of guidance more than anything else (this was another consequence of his adultery with Bathsheba).

    From a literary point of view, God Knows is one of the least significant of Heller’s novels. On the other hand, it is among his most accessible and enjoyable – and it will make you laugh out loud.
    http://www.geocities.com/athens/academy/6422/rev1235.html

  97. kittykat46 says:

    Need I say more about the state of mind of the above commentator ?

    For the benefit of the foreigners on this forum, there is a Malaysian term called “OTC” Otak Tak Centre – which roughly translates as a brain with a screw loose somewhere.

  98. Sarah Verghis says:

    Ktemoc:
    “You are being disingenous by arguing that the national symbol of Israel is not the Star of David”.. Sorry you are beating around the bush!
    I never disputed that magen david is on Israel’s flag. I only disputed your insinuation that Israel’s emblem is that of the evil king’s emblem, there by Israel is guilty by association!
    I specifically asked where in the bible it is mentioned that the megen David is king David’s emblem( you have been harping on David’s evil character, but you are not showing any evidence to say that magen David is king David’s emblem).

    I see that you understand murder is a murder and is evil. You wrote about King David being a murderer,( he actually ordered the killing of his top general). It is a sin! So let me ask you then,
    What about the fatah followers killing the hamas followers and vice versa.. Wouldn’t it be considered evil as well? How come no one is protesting against that?
    Last Wednesday, Hamas gunmen fired mortars and pipe bombs at the home of Fatah security chief Rashid Abu Shbak, before storming inside and killing six bodyguards, is that not evil? Weren’t those 6 men human? Weren’t they Palestinians?
    So it is ok for Palestinians to kill each other! That isn’t murder, that is their internal issue right?
    About killing innocent people,
    Have you read about Hafia massacre?
    Did you know most of the dead were school children?
    Dolphinarium massacre? A hamas suicide bomber killed 21 people in that attack..

    Why is the death of an ordianry person gets different effects according to his religious believes?
    I thought everyone had red colour blood running through their system?

  99. hutchrun says:

    Ooooo weeping over those amusing `palestinians`:

    March 31, 1977, the Dutch newspaper Trouw published an interview with Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein. Here’s what he said:

    The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct “Palestinian people” to oppose Zionism.

    For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.

    _______________________________________
    That’s pretty clear, isn’t it?

  100. hutchrun says:

    BTW the Darul Islam and PLO supremo died a hero`s death:

    Ahmad Jibril: When Abu Mazen came to Damascus with his team, I asked them: “What happened to the investigation into the death of Abu Ammar [Arafat]? The Israelis killed him. He was my colleague ever since 1965 and used to sleep at my home. He and I followed the same path.” Is it conceivable that when Rafiq Al-Hariri was killed, all hell broke loose, even though he was just a merchant in Saudi Arabia, who later entered politics, whereas the death of Yasser Arafat, who for 40 years had been carrying his gun from one place to another, is not investigate? Is this conceivable?

    They were silent, and then one of them said to me: “To be honest, the French gave us the medical report, that stated that the cause of Abu Ammar’s death was AIDS.” I am not saying this, they did. Now they pretend that they miss Yasser Arafat, and complain that [Hamas] entered his house in [Gaza] and so on… I say to every honorable member of the Fatah movement that he should be happy that we got rid of the plague, which had been imposed upon them and upon the Palestinian people. The Fatah movement now has an opportunity to renew itself.

  101. wits0 says:

    KTemoc, in your universe, the so called “down trodden underdogs” of the Baalestinian genre are to be mollycoddled and supported – there being few others in this world that deserve more bottomless aid and succour….even when they descend into barbarism and call ceaselessly for genocide = which is something criminal. It’s okay for them go overboard and forsake every chance for peace, such as the Oslo accord.

    Have you read the PLO’s Charter?

    Then you typically proceed to mention the matter of Sabra and Shatilla and Deir Yassin while conveniently forgetting to mention the massacre of Damour in January 1976. The last obvioulsy produced the Artabic reaction at Sabra and Shatilla of 1982 following their tribal revenge propensity.

    The Deir Yassin thing has two sides – the actual accuracy of events may never be ascertained. Aften the fake massacre of Jenin, the thinking world may have a better idea. But of course you’re completely sure!

    You also didn’t mention why these wonderful down-trodden Baalestinians had to be violently cast out of Jordan in the early seventies by King Hussein. By Golly, why so, being brothers and “united”?

    Your favorite down trodden people needs have no need to take responsibility for themselves ; they can drown themselves in hate-fests, starting from kindergarten teachings and still deserve endless sympathy and resources like no others in the rest of the world.

  102. hutchrun says:

    hahahhaha as if the Congressional CHRC is something unique….
    ____________________________________
    Is that all from someone who`s so much in the know. Pathetic really. Obviously the author is into typical dissimulation. This has to be noted:
    [ ]
    Under the proposed legislation, the US president would be required to instruct all official representatives of the United States that “explicit reference to Palestinian refugees be matched by a similar explicit reference to Jewish and other refugees, as a matter of law and equity.” The historical legacy of this mass Jewish exodus elucidates the bare minimum equity provided in these resolutions. This Thursday’s CHRC hearings provide a unique window on the legacy of dhimmitude and Islamic antisemitism which caused the tragic exodus of some 900,000 Jews from the Arab (and non-Arab Muslim) nations, liquidating most of these ancient communities. more….
    http://womenslens.blogspot.com/2007/07/recognition-for-silent-jewish-refugees.html

  103. hutchrun says:

    By the by, just came across this equally interestin bit on the canadians getting into the act:

    NEW YORK — Former justice minister Irwin Cotler and other Canadian scholars presented the U.S. Congress on Thursday with its first testimony on Jews driven from Arab lands following Israel’s creation in 1948.

    “The time has come to rectify this historical injustice,” Cotler told members of the congressional human rights caucus in Washington in a written statement.

    The witnesses were among experts helping U.S. lawmakers decide on a pair of bills that would oblige the Bush administration to actively oppose the Arab-led practice in Middle East peace efforts to speak only of Palestinian refugees.
    http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=24c7c36b-d5e2-40ed-8a82-1e8d386f1aa9

  104. wits0 says:

    “”..Cotler charged that the United Nations bears “express responsibility for the distorted narrative…””

    The UN is responsible for a lot of nonsense but it isn’t politically correct to say so. It’s moral descend began in the early sixties when it became no more than a hollow institution that exist for pageantry at the UN asembly.

  105. KTemoc says:

    😉 those neo-con and Zionist acolytes are spewing their MEMRI-like anti-Arab vitriol again – regretably lacking the intellectual honesty to put the mass expulsion of Jews from Arab countries (and KTemoc would be the last to deny that) into context.

    Then, what about the mass expulsion of Arab Palestinians from what is Israel today?

    They also lack the intellectual honesty to spell out Israeli and US atrocities while mentioning selective incidents of Islamist terrorism.

    That is the sad bankruptcy of their ideological leanings – even unto (excuse the biblical word) oooooh-ing and aaaaaaah-ing in blissful rapture about the ME policies of an invincibly biased US President and the US CHRC😉 Its funny actually.

  106. BobSam says:

    The concept of having human shields is common in the Middle East. It is also common in Malaysia. I was caught inadvertently in the Kesas Hiway incident in 90’s. I managed to bull-doze my way to the top of the line, where activists from Keadilan, PRSM & one more party – (I cant recall) where standing in line. I asked a Keadilan senior representative, as to why they are blocking innocent people who are not part of the group going to the meeting in Kota Kemuning (or some place near Klang). He mentioned that there was an innocent man in jail in Kamunting, so innocents have to suffer.

    I managed to push my car thru’, waved a whitish handkerchief thru the car window and go thru the FRU line. I believe I was the last person to do so, b4 the “rebels”, freedom fighters, reformists, (whatever label makes u comfortable) proceeded to block the passage for others.

    Some of you may recall what happened after that. Now who’s to blame, the FRU? or the “reformists”.

    Sofia/KTemoc, when people hide behind innocents, then innocents get injured. We cannot turn around and say they are terrorists. BTW, Israel have supposedly had nuclear weapons since the 70’s, yet they have never openly threatened to use it.

    But we are being petty. The more important issue at hand is that Malaysia-today.net is off-line.

    Do attempt to assist RPK please.

  107. BobSam says:

    Malaysia-Today is back online

  108. KTemoc says:

    BobSam, you’re right in “when people hide behind innocents, then innocents get injured” – but it’s doubly worse when unformed military used innocents as shields. Israeli army patrols had been doing this, until a recent inquiry told them to cease and desist.

    Israel having nuclear devices doesn’t mean it hasn’t been responsible for the worst form of atrocities against the Palestinian and Lebanon people.

    Their atrocities were so revolting that even several dozen Israeli pilots and soldiers refused to continue senseless and unjustifed bombings of innocent Palestinian civilians, which by the way were acts known as war crimes.

    There was even one Israeli army captain who, after shooting dead a young Palestinian girl (either 11 or 13), walked up to her very dead body and emptied a full magazine load of bullets into her corpse. Said captain was subsequently found not guilty by (of course) an Israeli court martial, and get a load of this, compensated for his problem and promoted to major.

    Truly the spirit of King David lives in him, amen

  109. wits0 says:

    The Palestinian “refugee camp” in north Lebanon, home to 40,000 “refugees,” has been completely wiped out by the Lebanese army.
    http://tinyurl.com/ytjdsw

    KTemoc wouldn’t notice that because it was the Lebanese army involved.

    He keeps harping on the ancient King David’s Old Testament story but didn’t even mention that King David also did real penitence for his crime/sin.

    Speaking of an elected unbalance state.

  110. KTemoc says:

    thanks, oh I noticed alright but I look for the root cause, namely why were there Palestinian refugee camps in Lebanon in the first place😉

    As for King David, I raised his name and deeds or misdeeds as a reminder of how appropriate and fitting that the modern state of Israel elected to adopt a symbol representing him, their greatest hero, a treacherous murderer and adulterer

  111. lakama says:

    ktemoc, better save ur precious time arguing them. not ur match. find those who use both eyes n ears, who read twice more than 1 source.

  112. hutchrun says:

    ktemock spews standard islamofascist rhetoric in saying:
    `those neo-con and Zionist acolytes are spewing their MEMRI-like anti-Arab vitriol again ..`
    and reinforces the belief that he is their standard bearer.

    Then, what about the mass expulsion of Arab Palestinians from what is Israel today?
    _______________________________________
    That is once again taking absurdity to a high form. Many more mass expulsions took place in the islamic republic of pakistan – millions in fact.
    To deny one and weep tears for the other on some non-existent `right of return` are sure indicators of an adulterated mind.
    Millions who were expelled from Pakistan have no right of return-but ktemock weeps copious tears for arabs who in the most part were encouraged to leave the area, so the muslim hordes could have a free hand to eliminate the Jews.

    ..while mentioning selective incidents of Islamist terrorism.
    ________________________________________
    more than a thousand years of these so called `selective incidents`, and still on going, is dissimulation again.
    The muslim Brig. Malik in his `The Quranic Concept Of War` had a much much more studied and intellectual observance, than ktemock`s juvenile posturing supporting arab propaganda.

    That is the sad bankruptcy of their ideological leanings
    _______________________________________
    Very much describes ktemock

    Its funny actually
    _______________
    Actually you are not. just pathetic.

  113. hutchrun says:

    ..their greatest hero, a treacherous murderer and adulterer
    _________________________________________
    So what`s new.
    Ktemock`s heroes are paedophilists, adulterers, murderers and propagators of genocide through the centuries.

  114. hutchrun says:

    The Quranic Concept of War by Brig. Malik:

    In his laudatory foreword to the book, General Zia wrote:

    ‘JIHAD FI—SABILILLAH (Jihad in the path of Allah) is not the exclusive domain of the professional soldier, nor is it restricted to the application of military force alone. The book brings out with simplicity, clarity and precision the Quranic philosophy on the application of the military force, within the context of the totality that is JIHAD.’

    Indeed it does. Brigadier Malik writes,

    ‘the Holy Prophet’s operations …are an integral and inseparable part of the divine message revealed to us in the Holy Quran. … The war he planned and carried out was total to the infinite degree. It was waged on all fronts: internal and external, political and diplomatic, spiritual and psychological, economic and military.’

    Where does terrorism come in the picture?

    ‘The Quranic military strategy thus enjoins us to prepare ourselves for war to the utmost in order to strike terror into the heart of the enemy, known or hidden…’

    It doesn’t stop here, for Brigadier Malik assures us:

    ‘Terror struck into the hearts of the enemy is not only a means, it is the end in itself. Once a condition of terror into the opponent’s heart is obtained, hardly anything is left to be achieved… Terror is not a means of imposing decision upon the enemy; it is the decision we wish to impose upon him.’

    These are ktemock`s heroes over whom he weeps, ululates, and beats his breast in anguish.

  115. hutchrun says:

    tke ktemock anguish sob sob:
    Yesterday, Israel killed four Palestinian gunmen in Gaza, two in a ground assault and two in an air strike against militants launching rockets at its territory. The violence was the worst in Gaza for 10 days.-CNN

    But this is ok:
    Three sisters were found stabbed to death in the Gaza Strip on Sunday, raising suspicion they were killed by relatives because of suspected immoral behavior.
    The three sisters, 16-year-old Nahed Hija and her sisters, 19-year-old Suha and 22-year-old Lina, were found dead from multiple stab wounds, buried in a shallow grave in the central Gaza Strip early Sunday morning

  116. wits0 says:

    KTemock raises old canards but cannot update because he choses to be selectively blind. That is the root cause!

  117. hutchrun says:

    he choses to be selectively blind
    ___________________________
    I was thinking something along the lines of, maybe, creeping alzheimer`s – but that could be too good an excuse.
    You are more correct in that it`s intentional.

  118. wits0 says:

    Correct. I have been thinking regarding his stance in terms as being due to a state of pathology too, but that’s too involuntary.

  119. KTemoc says:

    😉 Just like Jeremiah railing and ranting:

    “Lo, I am bringing against you, O House of Israel, a nation from afar declares the Lord. It is an enduring nation … a nation whose language you do not know… Their quivers are like a yawning grave they are all mighty men. They will devour your harvest and food, they will devour your sons and daughters …” (Jeremiah 5:15-17).

    Amen😉

  120. wits0 says:

    God promised to bless those who bless His chosen people, and curse those who curse them (Gen. 12:1-3):

    The Call of Abram
    1 The LORD had said to Abram, “Leave your country, your people and your father’s household and go to the land I will show you.
    2 “I will make you into a great nation
    and I will bless you;
    I will make your name great,
    and you will be a blessing.

    3 I will bless those who bless you,
    and whoever curses you I will curse;
    and all peoples on earth
    will be blessed through you.”

    Now, KTemock, will you say that God lied or that it’s a different One from the One Jesus referred to as Father in the new Testament?

    As for the word “chosen”, this may well be wrongly mistakened and emphasized into something solely as “superior” in that fascist, suprmacist sense. I have my own opinion, let’s rather hear yours now since you chose to singularly demonize a people, quoting scriptures.

  121. hutchrun says:

    wits0:
    I think you`ll find this interesting 9it comes in 9 parts)- it is certainly not for the islamofascist intended who believe that only one book is correct, and those before that were `lies`:
    [ ]
    In portraying Eve’s conversation with the serpent the way it does, the Torah seems to be constructing for us a case study in the dynamics of desire. Here is what it looks like, the text seems to be saying, to struggle with the phantom boxer, the boxer named desire: In subtle ways, things can start to look either bigger or smaller than they really are. The implied warning is clear: Don’t be too quick to embrace your impeccably constructed arguments about why you really should eat that fruit. First, ask yourself: Am I seeing things the way they really are, or just the way I want to see them? Even if I’m not exactly lying to myself about the facts, am I playing with how I emphasize them? Am I exaggerating the importance of some things, minimizing the significance of others?

    http://www.aish.com/literacy/exploring/The_I_of_the_Beholder_Serpents_of_Desire3_Part_9.asp

  122. hutchrun says:

    [ ]
    Three wise men of Broadway (Arthur Laurents, Leonard Bernstein and Stephen Sondheim) took Shakespeare’s Romeo and Juliet and turned it into West Side Story. Hey, there’s no problem; they did a great job in the transformation. But Laurents, Bernstein and Sondheim didn’t then go around killing those people that tried to read or stage the original version of Romeo and Juliet.
    [ ]
    Incidentally, the Abraham-Ishmael story wasn’t even a regular part of Jewish folklore and history until the 1st century, when the Jewish historian Josephus wrote a couple of books for Vespasian, the Roman general and emperor.
    [ ]
    To paraphrase what my parents used to say; “If you can’t play nicely with our Abraham, then leave our story alone.”

    http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/MarcJRauch40917.htm

  123. wits0 says:

    Sarah : “but you are not showing any evidence to say that magen David is king David’s emblem).”
    —————————————————-
    I’m waiting too…Hehehe, Sarah, if he could, his rationality would be secured and sense of balance closer to being recognised.

    Hutch, I think he ventured (yet again) beyond his ken.

    QED.

  124. hutchrun says:

    QED-`Quite Easily Done` as my maths teacher used to joke.
    To say `quod erat demonstradum` would escape a budding proarabist.

  125. hutchrun says:

    The evolution of the six-pointed Jewish star,
    the “Magen David,” literally the “Shield of David.” also known as the hexagram, or more rarely, *Solomon’s Seal, is long and complex.
    Although it is now the most common and
    universally recognized sign of Judaism and Jewish identity, both within and outside of the Jewish community, it has only achieved this status in the last two hundred years. Before that it was chiefly associated with magic or with the insignia of individual families or communities. Yet despite its equivocal history, Jews have long been attracted to this design and have sought to ascribe to it venerable origins.
    In our own day, its universal Jewish popularity, especially as the symbol of the State of Israel, has made the question of its origins moot.
    _______________________________________

    One can therefore understand the islamofascists wanting its removal since they consider Solomon a prophet.

  126. wits0 says:

    Hutch, not sure about being a budding one ; more seemingly like a long stunted and inchoate wannabe singing the same song.

  127. hutchrun says:

    Love teochew porridge🙂

  128. hutchrun says:

    In 1536 ce, Sultan Suleiman the Magnificent ordered extensive restorations on the Temple Mount and converted the church which had been built on Mount Zion during the Crusader conquest into a mosque. By building this mosque, Suleiman linked himself both to Solomon the son of David and the Davidic Messiah who, according to Christian belief, is Jesus. It was Sultan Suleiman’s messianic consciousness which led him to develop the link between himself and King Solomon. On the walls which be built around Jerusalem are stone decorations in the form of two interlocking triangles Stars of David, known to Moslems as Khatam Suleiman and to Jews as Khatam Shlomo (King Solomon’s Seal) whose function was to protect the city. The symbol of the hexagram, the star-like figure formed by two triangles, has many connotations, especially when it is enclosed by a circle; super-natural powers have been attributed to it in many parts of the world since ancient times. Beyond the Jewish national associations which have only become attached to it in the last few hundred years, the abstract element of the figure (which is connected to the celestial stars) and its geometrical completeness make it a universal symbol. Together with the five-pointed star (the pentagram, which is of much earlier origin) the hexagram represents the development of mathematics and geometry by the Greeks and their successors around the Mediterranean.

    http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/1990_1999/1999/2/King%20Solomon-s%20Seal

    Islamofascists seethe, ktemock, maybe, learns something.

  129. wits0 says:

    Teochew porridge is a boneless treat. Love it too.

    KTemock is oblivious to the ancient symbolism of many esoteric traditions, of the triangle. He probably think(if he’s aware, in the first place)of the pentagram as an evil symbolism!

  130. hutchrun says:

    Hee Hee. Getafix the druid got magic potion.

  131. wits0 says:

    Hutch, it won’t be too far fetched to imagine George Galloway, Robert Fisk or Ken Livingstone having reaped at least some material benefits from their proarabist efforts and obsession. Not sure about the teochew contemporary. Maybe he does it for nothing but warped “principles”.

  132. hutchrun says:

    Guardian poster boy,George Galloway:

    George Galloway should be suspended from Parliament for 18 days, a committee of MPs said.

    George Galloway testifies before US Congress
    The committee criticised the Respect MP’s conduct aimed at “concealing the true source of Iraqi funding” to a charity he set up and failure to co-operate with the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/07/17/ngalloway217.xml

    Slowly, but surely they fall.

  133. KTemoc says:

    I posted the following days ago:

    “And this was what Rabbi Sharaga Simmon said of the Star (or Shield, if you like, tho’ Star is the popular description) of David:

    “Through our long and often difficult history, we have come to the realization that our only hope is to place our trust in God. The Magen David (literally “Shield of David”) has six-points, which symbolize that God rules over the universe and protects us from all six directions: North, South, East, West, Up and Down. A similar symbolism is found in reading the “Shema.” (”Code of Jewish Law” O.C. 61:6)

    Thus, King David used this six-pointed symbol to signify that the Almighty shields him in war. (Rabbi Moshe Feinstein – “Igrot Moshe” O.C. 3:15)”

    I hope Sarah who titled herself as Dr is not an ophthalmologist because she appeared to have myopic problems or is wearing her religious blinkers. Hope you two ‘playing’ with and tickling each other😉 with mutual ‘indulgence ‘aren’t aspiring to that specialisation too.

    Then I was asked: “Now, KTemock, will you say that God lied or that it’s a different One from the One Jesus referred to as Father in the new Testament?”

    My dear chap,😉 you are asking this, an issue of faith, of an aethist???

    Shows you were either asking for trouble or just don’t have any realisation of what may follow😉 and I am resisting the temptation to use hurtful words to describe the folly of your invitation😉

    I won’t answer you for the reason that I don’t want to hurt even a bloke like you, let alone my Christian friends on issues of religious beliefs. Let me give you one valuable piece of advice – never ever ask an aethist to comment on an issue of faith, especially yours.😉

    Hey hey hey, you learn something today, haven’t you – ah, ah, don’t thank me, I did it out of the pure goodness of my aethist heart😉

  134. wits0 says:

    How wrong you are also on this matter of faith, KTemock.

    Technically I’m a atheist like you but unlike chosing easy ignorance in non investigation often attributed to common atheism, I prefer to take up the personal attempt to try to understand how different belief system made some people tick and whether there exists sufficient rational conviction behind the question of traditional faith. Even in atheism, a small element of faith in its own conviction exists in the rejection of theism.

    If you say that you’re an out and out atheist rejecting the Deity effected Creationist theory, just as I do, do you have an inkling of any idea how things came to being? Any abstract concept or intuitive idea at all?

    If, otoh, you claim to be purely a Scientific sort of person, can you grasp what Stephen Hawkings Quantum Mechanics and understand a little as to how it is said to work with Einsteins General Relativity?

    Nah, sensitives are the hallmark of the uninitiated and the stunted mind. It is part of the absolutist projection in partisan worldview.

    No, you’re a “freedom fighter”, of sorts, but your mind is not able or willing to upgrade to absorb more.

  135. KTemoc says:

    Quote
    If you say that you’re an out and out atheist rejecting the Deity effected Creationist theory, just as I do, do you have an inkling of any idea how things came to being? Any abstract concept or intuitive idea at all?
    Unquote

    Ah, the Alpha & Omega type of bloke, aren’t you?😉 Sez it all

  136. wits0 says:

    You wouldn’t begin to get it right. 😀

  137. Sarah Verghis says:

    Ktemoc: This is what most Jewsih scholars have said about Magen David!
    “Although there have been attempts to trace the Star of David back to King David himself; no Jewish literature or artifacts document this claim”
    Some medieval Jewish magical texts spoke of a magic shield possessed by King David which protected him from his enemies. According to these texts, the shield was inscribed with the seventy-two letter name of God, or with Shaddai (Almighty) or *angelic names, and was eventually passed down to Judah Maccabee.
    The 15th-century kabbalist, Isaac Arama, claimed that Psalm 67, later known as the “Menorah Psalm” because of its *seven verses (plus an introductory verse), was engraved on David’s shield in the form of a menorah.
    Another tradition suggests that Isaiah 11:2, enumerating the six aspects of the divine spirit, was inscribed on the shield in the outer six triangles of the hexagram.
    In time, the hexagram replaced this menorah in popular legends about David’s shield, while the five-pointed pentagram became identified with the Seal of Solomon.
    In 1354, Emperor Charles IV of Prague granted the Jews of his city the privilege of displaying their own *flag on state occasions. Their flag displayed a large six-pointed star in its center. A similar flag remains to this day in the Altneuschul, the oldest synagogue in Prague. From Prague, the “Magen David” spread to the Jewish communities of Moravia and Bohemia, and then eventually to Eastern Europe.
    With Jewish emancipation following the French Revolution, Jews began to look for a symbol to represent themselves comparable to the cross used by their Christian neighbors. They settled upon the six-pointed star, principally because of its heraldic associations. Its geometric design and architectural features greatly appealed to synagogue architects, most of whom were non-Jews. Ironically, the religious Jews of Europe and the Orient, already accustomed to seeing hexagrams on kabbalistic amulets, accepted this secularized emblem of the enlightened Jews as a legitimate Jewish symbol, even though it had no religious content or scriptural basis.

    When Theodor Herzl looked for a symbol for the new Zionist movement, he chose the Star of David because it was so well known and also because it had no religious associations. In time, it appeared in the center of the flag of the new Jewish state of Israel and has become associated with national redemption.

    During the Holocaust, the Nazis chose the *yellow star as an identifying badge required on the garments of all Jews. After the war, Jews turned this symbol of humiliation and death into a badge of honor. (From Menorah.org)

  138. hutchrun says:

    Potential islamofascists, to buttress their arguments, will post on the evils of other religions. It is jihad-al-qalam (written), and jihad-al-nafas (spoken).
    Some claiming to be atheists, and so implying some form of objectivity, or impartiality they try to portray themselves as in love with humankind with their anthem of `L’Internationale`.
    Yet that mentality remains chained, despite being born free – to paraphrase Marx.

    Karl Marx did say that religion is the opium of the people. Which then launched the careers of those in-love with humanity like Lenin and Mao. Today, their descendants are servitors to the islamofascist creed.

    Ktemock is no Christopher Hitchens.

  139. hutchrun says:

    During the Holocaust, the Nazis chose the *yellow star as an identifying badge required on the garments of all Jews.
    _________________________________________

    When those Darul Islam freedom fighrers, Taliban, ruled Afghanistan, all Hindus and Sikhs (the only peoples of other religions there), and 1 jew, all had to wear yellow clothing – only.
    That was to differentiate them from the pious ones.
    The evil West of course kicked out the free Taliban.

  140. wits0 says:

    Christopher Hitchens is learned and fair, not a proarabist instrument or apologist. He’s able to see, understand and prioritize the nature of threats facing humanitry and is no moonbat.

  141. hutchrun says:

    Ktemock his King David stuff follows Mahatma Gandhi who called Gobind Singh a thug and murderer for killing the `peace` ones.
    The sikhs call him their Guru.

  142. wits0 says:

    Hutch, imo, Gobind Singh was at least a practical leader for his fierce epoch. He did not attempted to be a preachy peacenik. That can’t be possible if the Sikh ppl were to survive.

    Gandhi was a different kettle of fish because he can afford to preach much appeasement after his victory over the tired and gentlemenly British Empire. He became a celebrated figure but it appears that appeasing Ali Jinnah did not brought real peace afterwards. Today, Pakistan is in turmoil and India is also threatened consequently.

    Karen Armstrong is one of today’s fairly well known asinine apologist. Her erroneous political correctness undermines the real objectivity that is needed.

  143. wits0 says:

    Correction : “..HAVE not brought real peace..”, rather.

  144. hutchrun says:

    True true. One of the best jokes on that gandhi is in Bhowani Junction when Gandhi`s peaceniks lie down on the train tracks in support of the `non violence` to stop trains.
    So this police officer orders his men to throw buckets of urine on these `congress party` peaceniks.
    They all ran. No more protest.
    In certain parts of India, like Maharashtra, Bengal, Punjab Gandhi is cursed till this day.

  145. hutchrun says:

    There are some questions as to what gandhi did with his goats too.

  146. KTemoc says:

    quote
    There are some questions as to what gandhi did with his goats too
    unquote

    You aren’t equal to one of Gandhi’s pubic hair – kekeke

    Besides ‘comforting’ each other, it seems there’s no depth to which you two wouldn’t sink down to😉

    hahahahahhahahahaahahahahahaaaaa

  147. wits0 says:

    How much do you know about Gandhi(and his pubic hair), KTemock, – expectedly deriding what you don’t and cannot perceive?

    First, your own reading skill is deliberately faulty as I did not say anything wrt to the goat’s allusion. Secondly I do not need another person to substantiate what I stated ; it came without expectation by its own accord because it’s nearer to the truth than the one you chose to stubbornly believe in.

    The fact is when Ben Kingsley went to India to play the part of Gandhi in the early eighties, he expressed surprised in an interview that many young Indians have not heard of Gandhi. Gandhi was more well known outside India.

    Would a shallow person understand depth, incidentally? 😀

  148. kittykat46 says:

    I loved Gandhji. He really had much to teach the world.
    But he was also very much a flawed man.
    He was great in spite of his flaws.

    Its true his legacy within India itself is fading. To the Bollywood rah-rah generation he is almost Gandhi-who?

  149. wits0 says:

    We’ll, KTemock, I certainly didn’t elicit that from Kittykat46. 😉

    OTOH, let’s see your supporters, with the same sort of mindset, who won’t get similarly demolished. 😀

  150. hutchrun says:

    ktemoc: You aren’t equal to one of Gandhi’s pubic hair – kekeke
    _________________________________________

    Finally the great ktemock displays his erudition.

    I`m lucky i`m not as great as gandhi`s pubic hair. Meanwhile, in the Indian Parliament now hangs the portrait of the chap who plugged gandhi (the man who more than any other, prompted the genocide of hindus and sikhs).

    Probably ktemoc posts on his blog while plucking his pubic hair and meditating on what D.H. lawrence referred to as the `white forget me nots` at the tips.

    Maybe he tastes and licks them as well.

  151. hutchrun says:

    Besides ‘comforting’ each other, it seems there’s no depth to which you two wouldn’t sink down to
    _________________________________________
    Well you and Wong Chun Wai, DAP, Tian Chua are masturbating each other most of the time any way.

    Meanwhile here`s the famous founder of Pakistan with some learning for gandhi`s pubic hair adorers:

    In 1924, Mohammed Ali to whom Gandhi showed such affection said, : “However pure Mr. Gandhi’s character may be, he must appear to me, from the point of religion, inferior to any Mussalman even though he be without character.”

    In 1925 he emphasized: “Yes, according to my religion and creed, I do hold an adulterous and a fallen Mussalman to be better than Mr. Gandhi”.

  152. hutchrun says:

    ..it seems there’s no depth to which you two wouldn’t sink down to
    _____________________________________
    I like that coming, coming from a deep sea diver who now suffers from `bends`🙂

  153. wits0 says:

    There stood KTemock(in his last stand) on his “moral” highground and derides all the lesser beings who can’t agree with his worldview by scrapping the bottom of the barrel. 😀

  154. KTemoc says:

    😉 you still haven’t explained what you were doing hiding beneath Ganhdi’s bed observing his interactions with his goats hahahhahahahahahaaaa

    As Chubby Checker said: “How low can you go”

    For you two, very low indeed😉
    *****
    sorry Susan for hijacking your post😉 hoe chieow nia, beh tahan la

  155. hutchrun says:

    you still haven’t explained what you were doing hiding beneath Ganhdi’s bed observing his interactions with his goats hahahhahahahahahaaaa
    ________________________________________
    No I never wrote that. Your comprehension has sunk too low. Must be the pubic hair travelling up your sinus into your bend (bent) brain.
    This is what I wrote:
    `There are some questions as to what gandhi did with his goats too.`

    It`s a very common comment in India where he gandhi is also called `gandu`.
    Which reminds me of a joke (tho` the Rajput, Rohit was serious when he said it):

    Gandhi`s last words when he was shot were `hai ram` – the last words were for his goats. To learn the meaning of `ram` perhaps ktemock could refer to a dictionary.

  156. KTemoc says:

    Gandhi was assassinated in Jan 1948 by a rightwing Hindu nationalist Nathuram Godse, because he and other conspirators couldn’t stand Gandhi’s evenhanded treatement of Muslims and his agreement to the partition of British India into India and Pakistan.

    60 years later a long gone Gandhi, living only in our memories, has once again been assassinated (by having his name defiled) by our wonder here.

    And the most disgraceful act, apart from defiling a great but dead man’s name, was the pathetic attempt to perpetrate wither a lie or an ignorance.

    Attempting to lie/misinform readers here that “hai Ram’ or “hey Ram” as last words for Gandhi’s “goats” is typically the known lying habits of pro US neocons and pro Zionists slaves.

    … which makes you worse than a “goat”😉 hahahhahahahahahaaaaa

    This is the sort of neocon/Zionist propoganda lies that have been defiling Susan’s blog – basically bull … er nope … goatsh*t😉

    ** for other readers, “hey Ram” means “O Lord” or “O God”, though Gandhi’s secrrtary Pyarelal claimed that the last words exclaimed were “Rama Rama”

  157. KTemoc says:

    typo in 3rd para – should be *perpetrate either a lie or an ignorance …

  158. wits0 says:

    KTemock, you started the descend into vulgarity first from his high arabian pony. Now you continue into the insubstantial, “Neocons”, “Zionist propaganda, etc., expected rantings. And that don’t incur the”tsk…tsk”?

    Gandhi as half-naked fakir succeeded in his passive resistance to the gentlemenly British because of circumstances. The so called, non-violence” label hid the occurences of violence. It’s ironical that he was killed by a Hindu who thought otherwise. If he was 100% a high-soul as “mahatma” meant, he would be expected to be able to avoid that. Or at least be able to predict his own demise. Yet he never expected that, it would appear. Ben Kingsley who protrayed him in the film also looks much hansomer.

    His grandson, Arun made it into a worldwide Peacenik movement and the same didn’t mind kissing the despicable Arafat….after the failure of Oslo.

  159. KTemoc says:

    Well, trace the comments and see who started the descent into ad hominen attacks.

    And your “Gandhi as half-naked fakir succeeded in his passive resistance to the gentlemenly British …”

    half-naked fair, gentlemanly Brit!!!

    hahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahahahahahah – you summed up for us your cultural cringe and invincible bias

    “Ben Kingsley who protrayed him in the film also looks much hansomer …”
    hahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaa

    you’re indulging in escapism fanatsy the way Ronald Reagan did when he as President of the USA stated, after approx 300 marines were killed in Beirut, “Let’s send Rambo over there”

    hahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahah

    fantasy confirmed by your belief in the occult a la “… he would be expected to be able to avoid that. Or at least be able to predict his own demise …”

    hahahahaahahhhhhhaaaaaaahahahahahahahaha

    There are pickings from your heap of bias that I could dissect a million ways to show your unmitigated hatred of Islam, Muslims and people who befriend them or are sympathetic to their cause and concerns. I feel sorry for you.

  160. KTemoc says:

    and all the above still doesn’t hide the lie by your compatriot’s goatsh*t on Gandhi’s last words. He should be ashamed of his terrible misdeed.

  161. wits0 says:

    “half-naked fair, gentlemanly Brit!!!”
    —————————————–
    Have you even seen movie clips of your absolute icon? Which means you won’t be able to tell who actually looks better either or is cocked eyed (that goes with a cocked brain).

    Perhaps you prefer Frenchie or Dutch colonialist?
    They were better?

    “There are pickings from your heap of bias that I could dissect a million ways to show your unmitigated hatred of Islam, Muslims and people who befriend them or are sympathetic to their cause and concerns. I feel sorry for you.”
    ————————————————
    The same might more accurately said of your anti-Joooos stricken brain.

    “fantasy confirmed by your belief in the occult a la “… he would be expected to be able to avoid that. Or at least be able to predict his own demise …”
    ——————————————————–
    “Occult” per se is necessarily not a dirty word until bias and ignorant people like you spit it out that way.

    Now, why bring Reagan into it, why not Jew hating Carter? The fact is Reagan bowed to Congress wishes and pulled out of Beirut. That encourages the Mullahdom’s proxy.

    And your faux haughty scorn has a falsetto that is run over by Reality.

  162. wits0 says:

    “half-naked fair, gentlemanly Brit!!!”
    —————————————–
    Have you even seen movie clips of your absolute icon? Which means you won’t be able to tell who actually looks better either or is cocked eyed (that goes with a cocked brain).

    Perhaps you prefer Frenchie or Dutch colonialist?
    They were better?

    “There are pickings from your heap of bias that I could dissect a million ways to show your unmitigated hatred of Islam, Muslims and people who befriend them or are sympathetic to their cause and concerns. I feel sorry for you.”
    ————————————————
    The same might more accurately said of your anti-Joooos stricken brain.

    “fantasy confirmed by your belief in the occult a la “… he would be expected to be able to avoid that. Or at least be able to predict his own demise …”
    ——————————————————–
    “Occult” per se is necessarily not a dirty word until bias and ignorant people like you spit it out that way.

    Now, why bring Reagan into it, why not Jew hating Carter? The fact is Reagan bowed to Congress wishes and pulled out of Beirut. That encourages the Mullahdom’s proxy.

    And your faux haughty scorn has a falsetto that is run over by Reality. You seem to hit bottom and dig.

  163. hutchrun says:

    … which makes you worse than a “goat”
    ____________________________________
    Actually you are the pubic hair sniffing `ram`

    Gandhi was assassinated in Jan 1948 by a rightwing Hindu nationalist Nathuram Godse, because he and other conspirators couldn’t stand Gandhi’s evenhanded treatement of Muslims and his agreement to the partition of British India into India and Pakistan.
    ________________________________________
    That shows how senile you are.
    Peacenik gandu undertook a fast to get the Indian Govt. to release funds to the newly formed Pakistan, which the Indian Govt. was refusing to do because of the millions of hindus, sikhs, christians who were stuck in Pakistan.
    The Indian govt. knew that once the funds were released the muslims would initiate massive genocide. Nathuram Godse was one of those whose family was stuck there. Today his portrait hangs in the Indian Parliament – 60 years later.

    Attempting to lie/misinform readers here that “hai Ram’ or “hey Ram” as last words for Gandhi’s “goats” is typically the known lying habits of pro US neocons and pro Zionists slaves.
    ________________________________________
    As mentined it is a joke and not as you perverted mind reads `misinform`. Islamofascists and genocide propagators love that `neocon prozionist slave` read.
    Lenin, I think it was, who called them `useful idiots`.

  164. hutchrun says:

    He should be ashamed of his terrible misdeed.
    _____________________________________
    No I am most certainly not you pubic hair sniffing useful idiot. You too have a purpose and you play nicely into my hands in exposing your `useful idiocy`.

    That aptly described half naked fakir, and worse, is a reviled person in Maharashtra State too (the state gandu came from). Only your fellows in the Left love him.

    Gandu more than any other was personally responsible for the deaths of millions. Even in the mopla riots he ended up arse faced when his moslem bothers turned on him, and yet he never learnt his lessons – same as you.

    He also was a total failure at trying to prevent the Indians from fighting with the Allies against the Germans and their allies. But gandu did support jew genocide – like you.

    Pubic hair sniffers love his `greatness` and that is understandable.
    In fact the perverted Left has degenerated so much that in some of their fold `ramming` animals is acceptable `cos humans and animals are the same.

    The best is exposing your perversity. The famous pubic hair sniffing ktemock, frothing at the loose mouth.

  165. hutchrun says:

    I could dissect a million ways to show your unmitigated hatred of Islam, Muslims and people who befriend them or are sympathetic to their cause and concerns.
    _______________________________________
    Like your gandu who lived up to his name, you too will be mocked. Enjoy.

  166. wits0 says:

    Mahatma Gandhi said in 1940: “I do not consider Hitler to be as bad as he is depicted. He is showing an ability that is amazing and seems to be gaining his victories without much bloodshed. ”

    He was also reputed to have called on the world not to resist the Holocaust where 6 million Jews were murdered.
    http://www.madhoo.com/archives/2005/09/gandhi_and_the_holoc.php

    The extreme pacifist was irresponsible and certainly not clear sighted with a sound grasp on Reality. A religious fanatic from the other end, the Gita one. A dangerous literalist teaches an ideology – doesn’t that sound familiar, by way of methodology via religion?

  167. hutchrun says:

    ..people who befriend them or are sympathetic to their cause and concerns
    ________________________________________
    ktemock`s Undying Love on the way of methodology via religion:

    At the UK-based Islamic discussion forum Ummah.com, they’re discussing whether it’s all right to kill children while waging jihad: Impermissible to kill women and children in All circumstances?

    The verdict, according to a spiritual leader? No problem killing them.

    But you can only rape the women if you capture them first and make them slaves. Then it’s OK, because it’s no longer rape at that point.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?t=134762

  168. hutchrun says:

    ..people who befriend them or are sympathetic to their cause and concerns
    _________________________________________
    Ooooo bleeding heart ktemock supports `cause and concerns`:

    Islam: ‘Conflict with democracy’ centres on non-Muslims’ status

    Syrian philosopher Sadik Al-Azm spoke to AKI ahead of the publishing in Italy of the second edition of his book ‘Enlightened Islam’ by Di Renzo Editore

    Rome, 26 July (AKI) – Syrian philosopher Sadik Al-Azm believes that while “there exists a conflict between Islam, in its original form, and democracy, this problem can be solved easily”.

    “To do this Islam needs to jettison certain laws, first and foremost the concept of ‘ahl al-dhimma'” the so-called ‘protected’ status granted to followers of the only two other religions recognised by Muslims – Judaism and Christianity, “Al-Azm said in an interview with Adnkronos International (AKI).

    In practice, ahl al-dhimma, which is gaining popularity in an increasingly Islamised Iraq, allows non-Muslims, and only Christians and Jews at that, to follow their religion, while effectively stripping them of their political rights and privileges.

    Abolishing ahl al-dhimma “paves the way for the concepts of citizenship and equality of all people before the law” Al-Azm , who lectures at universities in Lebanon, Syria and Germany, told AKI.

    Similarly, the Syrian philosopher argues that Islam must reappraise its stance on slavery, which he says is at best ambiguous.

    “Islam fails to address in a direct and fundamental manner the issue of slavery from a judicial level”.
    _______________________________________
    All those idol worshippers primarily hindus and buddhists must be eliminated. Tme main reason why the bamiyan statues were blown up by ktemock`s lovers.

  169. wits0 says:

    One day Mullah Nasruddin lost his ring down in the basement of his house, where it was very dark. There being no chance of his finding it in that darkness, he went out on the street and started looking for it there. Somebody passing by stopped and enquire: “What are you looking for, Mullah Nasruddin ? Have you lost something?” “Yes, I’ve lost my ring down in the basement.” “But Mullah Nasruddin , why don’t you look for it down in the basement where you have lost it?” asked the man in surprise. “Don’t be silly, man! How do you expect me to find anything in that darkness!”
    ———————————————————-
    There’s a similarity with KTemock’s logic above.
    If there is logic at all with useful idiots.

  170. kittykat46 says:

    Have pity on poor KT.
    Medical insurance coverage doesn’t cover psychiatric treatment, you know….

  171. KTemoc says:

    🙂 ya la kk46, hearing those two sprouting MEMRI-ish propaganda would turn anyone psycho hahhahahahahahahaaaaaa

  172. hutchrun says:

    🙂 Hahaha. Go take your multiple personality disorder meds. Better still go to your mullah.

  173. hutchrun says:

    And now for a snappy little number ktemock`s sure to enjoy—“I Wanna Be Like Osama,” from the production of Jihad The Musical, appearing at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival in Scotland next month.
    Watch out for the dancing burqas.

    http://www.jihad-the-musical.com/

  174. hutchrun says:

    God-Fearing People
    Why are we so scared of offending Muslims?
    By Christopher Hitchens
    http://www.slate.com/id/2171371/fr/flyout

  175. hutchrun says:

    Read this book. It will open your eyes about Gandhi’s racism. And if it doesn’t do that, it might open your eyes about Gandhi’s false pacifism. How often does a pacifist boast that “if we had the atom bomb, we would have used it against the British”?
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/1573929980/ref=cm_cr_dp_all_top/102-6340135-6036935?ie=UTF8&n=283155&s=books#customerReviews

  176. yehudadraiman says:

    NO PALESTINIAN STATE R1

    Imagine that the various people who settled in the United States for the past 300 years decided one day that they one to parcel the United States into an independent State just for them, would the American public go for it. The Answer is absolutely NO.

    The situation in Israel today is no different. The Arabs there are not Palestinians, there is no such Arab nation as Palestine or Palestinian people.

    Europeans countries today are consisting of numerous people from other countries. Would the Europeans people cede part of their country to set up another State in their midst. The answer is absolutely NO.

    All the Arabs in Israel and surrounding areas are from the various Arab nations, such as Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Lebanon and other Arab nations.

    Prominent PLO Arab says there are no ‘Palestinians’ and no “Palestine”

    PLO executive committee member Zahir Muhsein admitted in a 1977 interview with a Dutch magazine.

    “The Palestinian people do not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct ‘Palestinian people’ to oppose Zionism. ”

    Yehuda Draiman
    .

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