HAHAHA! Now Tian Chua refuses to say sorry over his fake photo and Khairy Jamaluddin, the son-in-law, is angry. “What he claims is art or humour is not only in bad taste but also offends the sensibilities of every rational Malaysian,” says Khairy. NST has even taken the trouble to ask the toothless tiger – SUHAKAM – National Human Rights Commission’s – comment over the photo controversy. (Read the follow-up story here).

Update: Tian Chua Admits Responsibility For Publishing Fake Photo

“I did it myself and it was not done professionally. If there had been such a dinner, that is how it will be perceived. The woman in the photograph was not the real Altantuya,” he told reporters at the PKR office, here.

Your super-imposed photo of Najib, Razak and Altantuya has even made it to Parliament. Hahahahahahhahahahaha ! Tian Chua resorted to cheap publicity indeed, but what about all those who fell in line – bloggers as well as members of Parliament? Making the issue bigger than it is – cheaper than cheap publicity I would say!

You got the traffic to your blog, as desired, and you made waves, as you always do.

PKR Leader Criticised For Deriding National Leader

KUALA LUMPUR, July 4 (Bernama) — Several backbenchers Wednesday lambasted a Parti Keadilan Rakyat (PKR) leader whom they said resorted to `cheap politics’ by publishing a `super-imposed’ photograph of Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak and Mongolian woman, Altantuya Shaariibuu in its website.

The members of parliament, when met at the Parliament lobby, said the antics of the PKR leader concerned were despicable and shameful.

Datuk Mokhtar Radin (BN-Kinabatangan) said the PKR leader had gone overboard as he should not have resorted to such malicious acts for political mileage.

“The opposition cannot simply spread lies to discredit national leaders.

“This is a criminal act,” he said.

The PKR website on Monday had deliberately carried a photograph of the Deputy Prime Minister being flanked by a woman who looked like Altantuya, the part-time Mongolian model who was murdered, and political analyst Abdul Razak Abdullah Baginda, who is charged with abetting in the murder of Altantuya.

The `fake’ photograph still appears on the website until today.

The `super imposed’ photograph is purported to refer to the testimony of the sixth prosecution witness, Burmaa Oyunchimeg, 26, who told the murder hearing that she had seen a photograph of Altantuya dining together with Abdul Razak and a Malaysian official known by the name of “Najib Razak”.

However, the photograph referred to was not shown in court.

The Deputy Prime Minister had in the past repeatedly denied his involvement in the murder of the Mongolian woman, saying that everyone including Prime Minister Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi knew better about the actual situation.

Referring to the impudent act by the PKR leader, Datuk Hasan Malek (BN-Kuala Pilah) said such impudence showed that the opposition was now under pressure to the extent that they were willing to bring shame upon themselves and their supporters.

“The cheap politics should not have been resorted to as the people themselves are aware that the information and photograph published are false,” he said.

Datuk Mohamad Aziz (BN-Sri Gading) said legal action should be taken against the PKR leader concerned for the slander committed against a national leader.

— BERNAMA

89 responses »

  1. kittykat46 says:

    I’ve visited his blog before – its normally a sleepy blog – infrequent posts, not many hits, very few commentators.
    Nothing like controversy to move traffic in his direction….looks like he got what he wanted…..hehehehe..

  2. madmonk says:

    Those critics in Parliament like pots calling kettle black should take a good look of themselves in the mirror. Their past equally “cheap” images probably have cracked all mirrors by now.

    madmonk

  3. Anonymous says:

    r those idiot pkk kkp kpk on which side? what they did is only giving more twist n worsen the case to let them walk free!

  4. Nstman says:

    Barisan, in particular Umno, stink to high heavens. They use their propaganda machine to bludgeon us into submission. They use the most vile methods to get their message across. Tian Chua is using their methods, so barisan bastards should not complain.

  5. Chee Yong says:

    Y backbenchers didnt say anything when DAP pics were doctored recently? This is double standard. What a waste of time and money debating about this fake pic when everyone knows is fake just from a glance.

  6. monsterball says:

    Whatever it is…Tian Chua should not have done this..especially involving a dead person…being brutally murdered and bombed to pieces. It’s such a cruel murder.
    But if you say he succeeded in getting attending for his blog…sure did…including me…all F… him.
    I was the only one under moderations and I put up more messages. He gave up and took off the moderation.
    I used to pity his one man protest show…got beaten up…arrested..shirt torn…look so weak…hunger strikes…but I guess it’s all worth it. He is now Keadilan V.President…but then who else can Anwar choose to be VP….all good ones resigned.

  7. lunas oh lunaih says:

    “The opposition cannot simply spread lies to discredit national leaders.

    “This is a criminal act,” he said.
    =================================================

    only this pic related to the above statements..THE REST that were published in the internet are all the TRUTHS…..that is why the MP has nothing to comment about other topic published in MALAYSIA TODAY…

    hey bloggers n forummer…did u get it…

  8. elizabethwong says:

    People forget Tian read Philosophy as his first degree.

    I hope this is an opportunity for everyone to dig out Eco’s Hyperreality and Baudillard’s Simulacrum/Simulations. It is without doubt a brilliant move by Tian which takes the theory of real/hyperreal/simulated ‘truth’ back to the ground in regards to politics here.

    (will write an extended post on this during the weekend)

  9. elizabethwong says:

    People forget Tian read Philosophy as his first degree.

    I hope this is an opportunity for everyone to dig out Eco’s Hyperreality and Baudillard’s Simulacrum/Simulations. It is without doubt a brilliant move by Tian which takes the theory of real/hyperreal/simulated ‘truth’ back to the ground in regards to politics here.

    (will write an extended post on this during the weekend)

    ps. He’s not Keadilan VP for quite a while.

  10. ricky says:

    When anyone else follows or imitate what umno does, the imitators are always wrong and should be charged.

    Just simply said, umno is always above the law and they can never be charged for any wrong doing.

    bodohland leads by bodohwi follow by the bodoh bn leaders.

    Well I can be charged for calling them bodoh, but when the bn mp shout bodoh what did the speaker said………

    And when they shout racist terms what did najis said…….

    ha!ha!ha!

    The world is laughing at this bodohland……..

  11. mohd says:

    umno is the law and they can exercise/alter it whenever they wan.

    my favourite term: “you tak suka, you keluar dari malaysia!”

  12. wits0 says:

    Would have loved to see the same line directed at Thierry Rommel! But hell, no, no guts to.

  13. monsterball says:

    Liz Wong is guiding us to new directions of thoughts about Tian Chua.
    I hope she is right.

  14. The Observer says:

    A philosophical person will not do anything like this.He finds a more dignified and credible way.

    Things like this makes a valid and real issue be treated as a joke. We are talking about a person cruelly killed and her family is seeking justice for her death. Not to make a political statement.

    Its done in a bad taste and sickening as Tian Chua forgot that the person he superimposed is now DEAD.Is this what we call sense of humor. I call it sick.

    His intention is clear that he wanted to scandalise the entire issue for a political spin purely to injure the DPM and base on a very weak assertion made.

    The issue of the photo must get the public to demand the photo be made available and proved.

    It is like the 50 dalil issue when Anwar was accused of homosexual activity. The demand then was-Prove it.

    Malaysian agreed that the 50 dalil publication should not be used to kill Anwar as it is merely an assertion and not credible at all.

    The same standard must apply and leaders must observe this standards to maintain ones own credibility, especially for political parties who stands for justice and fairness.This cannot be altered for the whims and fancies with double standards.

    Now-in Najib’s context.We cant fix another 50 dalil type of stunt and try to spin it for political purpose.TC just did it and it is a shame.

    He did something that he himself once condemn it with disgust.

    Politicians must stand the high moral ground and must give a person the presumption of innocence.If not,we go back to the dark ages and turn it into middle east politics. Insanity on stilts.

    There are ways to take this issue forward in a more credible and fair manner.

  15. ricky says:

    The Observer, very well written and said.

    But the sad thing about this country is that bn or rather umno rule does not allow to take any issues forward in a more credible and fair manner.

    Compare to TC doing it once against the thousand of times bn umno is doing. Can we really crucified TC but always allow bn umno to get away with what they do.

    Just look at how they protray AI dancing at Ijok, just think about it.

  16. monsterball says:

    That’s what I was thinking all along…like The Observer….then Liz Wong gave me food for thoughts.
    Now I compare..I agree with the observer completely.

  17. 4332 says:

    The Observer outlined how things should be done in an ideal world situation. Sadly, the real worlf id very far from it.

  18. wits0 says:

    Tian Chua is more on the sensation side than the philosophical end. Whether his poorly done spoof will turn out to be helpful is arbitrary. It did elicit the expected Neanderthal response from the big circus as expected. He could have presented the picture as an outline drawing and there is no ground for others to read all sorts of damning intention into it.

  19. V T says:

    QUESTION IS……………………….. did he crap in his pants?

  20. oA says:

    .

    It is strange to note some people might go to an extent of castigating him for reproducing a picture – a picture when inspects closely doesn’t even resemble anything to the victim case.

    What more the picture doesn’t even show the victim.

    Get a grip and lighten up.

    .

  21. arifabdull says:

    Dear friends,
    i cant help but didn’t get why ppl saw and keep telling the deceased Althantuya was in that controversial picture.

    semua dah ‘rabun’ KAH? Rabun Althantuya.

    if Najib sue Tian on that fake picture, u think Najib will win?

    wondering why no one of those big mouth MP and UMNO-BN guys dares to lodge a police report on TC this time, as usual.

    nothing special on that picture, at least for me, there are so lot of super imposed pictures on Najib, Badawi (even Jeanne Danker), Nazri and the rest that u can easily find on the net.

    what is the real issues here, right now? i guess the Barang Naik harga lagi (coming, beras).

  22. The Observer says:

    We are not examining the picture with microscopic view.Look at it with a simple human eyes.Look into the intention and the reason for the picture.View the picture as ‘one’.Any one who have viewed the photo, without a doubt and without even have to think twice can conclude on the assertion made.

    TC’s screw up of getting the wrong mugshot is no justification of any sort.it Doesn’t make the publication right.

    His intention is clear that he wanted to scandalise the entire issue for a political spin purely to injure the DPM and base on a very weak assertion made (not even an evidence).The assertion is not credible.And leaders of such high standing should not jump to capitalise on such matters purely for ones own political agenda.

    Integrity is paramount for any matter to stand relevant in public.

  23. monsterball says:

    Imagine Tian Chua did all that to throw us away from the real issue and his intentions are to make Najib look innocent…which Najib may not be.
    It seems he is no VP of Keadilan…..so he can be bought..can’t he?

  24. arifabdull says:

    that kind of critical thinking are good sense, uncle monty

  25. Tourman53 says:

    Why accused Tian Chua for doctoring photo of Najib with Altantuya . Just show the mongolian witness Burmaa Oyunchimeg the photo , ask her whether she has seen it or was it the one that Altantuya had shown her. May be Burmaa Oyunchimey has seen a different photo.

  26. oA says:

    .

    The picture is the fact.
    And would he have gotten the idea of such a pic had it not for the witness who said so? Certainly not.

    The main point of contention is the fact that he did not put the victim on the picture.

    .

  27. Raja says:

    Spare us the philosophy shit!

    Anybody who gives such a low blow cannot be serious about his political career if he still has it.

  28. heliconia says:

    closer to attention deficit disorder…

    the virtual way…

    Anyway, wonder what imeldarosmah has to say?

  29. bean says:

    I have reservations too about Tian Chua’s gimmick and I agree that he did it as some philosophical exercise. I think it is unethical although I surely would like to see the main perpetrators of Altantunya’s murder be brought to justice.

  30. bean says:

    Would someone out there, maybe Susan, please contact Setev Shaaribu and try to obtain the real photograph. That will just confirm that Amy was telling the truth and that someone was lying.

  31. lucia says:

    why everybody jumped up and attack tian chua? we should thank him instead for now almost everybody knows about the photo (or supposedly a photo of najib having dinner with altantuya). remember when amy first disclosed this, the mainstream media were told not to report on this? but now because of what tian did, the mainstream media reported it and it even went to parliament.

    yes, very well done indeed, tian chua!

  32. kk says:

    who knows, TC asks for 50 mil to trade off the real pic with Najib but Najib declined.

    Now with the doctored pic to alarm Najib intentionally, doesn;t it frightens Najib not to proceed the deal?

    in end, all TC wanted is his uncoming cheque.

  33. oA says:

    .

    Who cares low blow or high blow – as long as the intention is to bring about justices?

    dpm is not as innocent as he seems to be?

    .

  34. kk says:

    “The Deputy Prime Minister had in the past repeatedly denied his involvement in the murder of the Mongolian woman, saying that everyone including Prime Minister Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi KNEW BETTER ABOUT THE ACTUAL SITUATION.” extracted from topic.

    looks like DPM spread out some tips, now PM is involved?!

  35. The Observer says:

    Dear oA

    The picture is not a fact.Is a mere assertion that she saw a photo and it seems she saw Najib in it. No evidence was tendered and no cross examination was made on her assertion.

    My question? when she saw the photo, is it a big group of people and najib was part of it? how she knows that the person on the photo is najib and in all interest-why she made the assertion of such a photo in court and give no further evidence to show a causal link to the case.

    You call this fact? I can say that i saw a nude photo of oA? does that make it a fact?

    Im no fan of UMNO but i know i will be fair and be ethical even if it involves my enemies.I will not resort to the same kind of politics that i myself criticize as UMNO type?

  36. monsterball says:

    Can anyone tell me why those two accused are allowed to cover their faces going to court? I have never seen such loose rules in any other court cases…except in Malaysia. They are cops too!! What type of examples are we showing to the world. Cops are supposed to be brave ones…why hide the faces?
    More than that…I will wait for Susan’s next post to talk.

  37. jeancumlately says:

    Yeah right… maybe TC do have the “real” picture. Otherwise its just another of PKR-styled “we have boxes of evidence to be revealed at the right time” kinda stunt. I used to sympathise and do admire TC’s commitment to what he believed in but he better come up with something more than the fake photo or risk being remembered as one desperate-stupid-PKR politician. I hate to think of him that way but it is his own doing.

  38. monsterball says:

    jean….TC do have a bad reputation…believe it.
    Now …did he do that to throw all following the court case ….off balance and away from the truths that maybe about to come?
    He is not a fool.

  39. Roxanne says:

    Any idiot can see it’s superimposed. If you take that photo seriously and get all hysterical about it and not just be amused than something must be VERY wrong with your eyes and brain. Do yourself a favour, go for an eye-check and brain-scan. I don’t want to believe that Malaysians are all that stupid even though people keep telling me that. As Susan has figured it out, TC wants publicity, and probably because PKR is desperate for it after the recent by-election fiascos and everybody is ignoring it. TC is one smart guy. The general election is coming up. He knows the art of promotion. Bad publicity is better than NO publicity.

    And monsterball, to your question, the law says you’re innocent until you’re found guilty. It’s unfair for those charged with such a serious crime to have their faces plastered on every newspaper in and outside the country. Some don’t mine (like Razak, he’s already a known person) but most do. It’s also to protect the innocents, like members of their family. Surely, you wouldn’t want a child to be teased and bullied in school because his father’s face is on the newspaper everyday?

  40. monsterball says:

    Roxanne…I am talking talking about judgement.
    I am wondering is that the procedure. They are all jailed…meaning guilty…and their lawyers are trying to prove they are innocent.
    So it is the other way round.
    These are convicts as it is..according to the law……so can they have such privileges?

  41. hantutelur says:

    Covering your face/head is not a privilege. You might get suffocated

  42. notsosmart says:

    Roxanne. Monty is right to the dot. Rule is a rule. If not, maybe from now onwards. All those prosecuted in court throughout the country will have their equal right to hide their identity. Soon, you will find all kind of masking…toilet roll….shopping bag…..under pant…even…. pail over their face. Zorro or what????

  43. wits0 says:

    Roxanne, your stated reason for the accuse to be have their faces covered may have some validity and it seems to have become a convention. But if it’s an accepted convention, it has not been assiduously adhered to. For example there was a woman accused of polyandry, whose full length picture replete with handcuff which was splashed in no less than the front page of TheStar, not that many years ago.

  44. oA says:

    .

    Hi The Observer,

    His picture is a fact and the witness’s assertion was another fact in itself.
    Is there any coincidence that there were two persons with the “same name” as she was testifying? Would you believe in her or rather a politician?

    And does it not matter when the wife of one of the accused was mentioning that her husband wasn’t trying to be a PM. Doesn’t what she said have a more important implication then what is going on right now in the trial where the “drama” is being played out among the police officers – a case of I say, he said, I confessed, he denied, I heard he did it?

    When come to politic it is best to put aside emotional righteousness in self just because they are politicians but when it comes to justice then it is all a different matter.

    What reputation does dpm seems to have may I ask? A career politician, the likes of his ilk, only good in feeding on rhetorical racial and religious hatred and bigotry! What else can he provide for Malaysians of all colors and creeds? Probably none and the best he can do is to satisfy the status quo of depression, discrimination etc.

    As good or as bad as some may have perceived what he is, perhaps one has to justify his character by his foremost intention.

    If he was all out for justices then who cares how he did it though.

    .

  45. farizrani says:

    oA thanks for your comment. I don’t totally agree with you though. It seemed really ‘planted’ that Burmaa/Amy brought that ‘same name’ fact. I reckon someone explicitly told her to mention Najib. It’s totally irrelevant to the case and irrelevant to her about who Altuntaya was sitting with (beyond ARB).

  46. monsterball says:

    Looks like I am right on those convicts. we must yell like hell to get the attention of the govt…..but all will keep quiet. PM say…it is the work of the Min. Of Justice…rightly so….then that minister may say..it is the responsibilities of the police….then the police will say…if court do not object…why make fuss?
    The govt do have a no go…no do …no act system.
    And back to Pak Lah must do all the donkeys work,
    He has too!! Lets hope someone read this and start being fair to all convicts….no double standards and special priviledges given.. right infront of the whole world….. how shameful…yet they don’t know? Bullshit. It’s downright double standard clearly seen.

  47. frm_mongolia_with_luv says:

    TRUST ME FELLOWS!!!…….ALL VVIPS (INCLUDING RAZAK BAGINDA) WILL ESCAPE. 2UTK PERSONEL WILB IN D DEEP SHIT…. D VVIPS JUST NEED SOMEONE 2B BLAME.

  48. mann9974 says:

    Come Razak, face it………………
    Boil your chicken and let the nation have the soup.

  49. vgtree says:

    mann9974:
    Even Razak’s chickens wear T-shirts proclaiming “I am Razak Bag’s chicken” in front, “and I am proud of it!” at the back. The cows and goats in his backyard also are attired in similar T-shirts. So how to boil them?

  50. The Observer says:

    Dear OA

    1.Can you tell me in what context, she made the assertion and what is the relevance of asserting that Najib Razak was in the photo in the context of the ongoing case? What is he further assertion made and further evidence offered? We cant be giving too much of weight to this assertion as it is not a fact and the assertion lacks in credibility.

    Her assertion becomes a fact if the evidence were tendered to court and be placed for examination by the court.

    Its not about who to believe in a balance of probability base on sentiment and emotions.Its about justice and fairness,hence the due process must take place and the public must be the watching brief on the process and not be taken for a ride on some idea of a photo that were said to exist somewhere and it links it to the DPM.Its obvious that you guys choose to only see the sensational part of the case and the political spin offered by the politicians.Be open and be independent in your thinking.don’t just run after the carrot.

    The DPM if he is corrupt and unfit to lead, then campaign to overthrow him openly and base on credible and strong facts.Not some weak and questionable assertion.

    All im saying that if there seems to be an alternative to the current politics.It have to be really an alternative and must be made up of integrity ,credibility and fairness and in an objective sense.

    its just sad to learn that the very arty that preaches about integrity, fairness and justice beside to practice the rules of the jungle.Mudslinging, shit throwing and stone throwing.

  51. OA says:

    .

    The Observer …

    Can you tell me HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT the court of justice in this particular case?

    I am very sure there are many would like to know your view?

    By the way – politicians are crook – I will not be naive to assume they are clean and innocent unless they prove it.

    .

  52. wits0 says:

    Susan, Suhakam was never a tiger. Toothless, definitely, but tiger, never. It’s just a lucrative employment opportunity for an ex-AG who arbitrarily burnt the court’s VHS tape evidence!

  53. monsterball says:

    NOT ONLY TOOTHLESS TIGER…..ALSO NO BALLS!!
    Why don’t they employ Susan to be the leader and she chooses Sheih as her deputy and yours trully…the frontliner.
    Three of us will at least get one or two ministers into jail for logging…..hahahahahah
    Or maybe three of us are destined to be jailed for a job too well done….that’s not what they want…..hahahahahaha

  54. swinger69ers says:

    Hmm…super-imposed definitely. Next time u wanna do sum realistic super-impose, pass it on 2 me..hehehe…i can do better ones..
    But then again, it cud b a political stunt… who knows maybe Tian Chua is WORKING wif Najib in d background…He posted a super=imposed pics (purposely) so it will look like d foundation of althantuya relationship wif Najib is actually a fake one, and Najib can use this pic as a public denial wif d saying of “The pic is super-imposed..it is not real, i am innocent!! and d people must know and support me out frm this outrageous slander”. Then his political stand will b stronger, even KJ cannot do anything abt it..hehehe… later, upon sum humiliation view frm d public to Tian Chua, he’ll b ousted as a ‘desperado’ in d political community.. but who knows, Najib & d gang already prepared sum amount to his offshore acct for helping him to prove d illicit innocence of the case…Ended up, both person in a win win situation…
    Not neccessarily whut i post here is true…but imagine d possibilities.. because politics can b juz as fake as d picture..
    Juz my 69 cents….
    Cheers

  55. susan loone says:

    HAHAHA! see what a fake photo can do, what kind of responses it can elicit…hiya, we just want the REAL photo, but alas…what we get is fake, like all things Malaysian….sigh.

  56. Roxanne says:

    monsterball, To put it as simple as possible, it’s the prosecution who must prove to the court that the accused persons are guilty with witnesses and evidences. The defence is there for the interest of the accused persons and to ensure they stay “innocent” with counter-witnesses and evidences, if necessary.

    While the prosecution has to prove that the accused persons are guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, the defence does not have to prove anything at all. It’s enough for the defence to put doubt in the prosecution’s witnesses and evidences.

    Although the accused persons are in jail, it doesn’t mean that they’re guilty. They are held in custody for preventive measures but they can apply for bail.

    The judge can refuse bail, if he finds there can be a risk of the accused absconding (running away) before trial, or, in general, that they’re a risk to society (the possibility of them meddling with witnesses, bribing them or threatening them with bodily harm etc., and tempering with evidences, for eg., making things disappear). If you could remember, Razak was refused bail.

    If you still can’t understand that, I give up. You’ll hear no further about this from me. I’ve tried.

    Notsosmart, what rule? Until they’re found guilty, I don’t see any reason for them to be exposed to the world for the whole length of the trail. I don’t see it as a privilege for them to cover up. They still have a choice. Some mind, some don’t. Those who do mind can wrap themselves in toilet rolls if they want to OUTSIDE the courtroom. Even accused persons have human rights. I’m sure the authorities who do not stop them from covering up take into consideration that there are innocents involved. And it’s a good thing too. If they’re found guilty, their photos will appear in the newspapers for a couple of days at the most and they’ll soon be forgotten. Good for their families. Anyway, why such great interest in their faces? Aren’t court artist’s sketches good enough?

    witSo. I don’t think it’s a convention any more as newspaper-readership falls and sensationalism seems the only way to sell newspapers. To me, the example you gave is a modern version of the scarlet letter. At the end of the day, it’s up to the chief editors and I don’t think any of them have ethical qualms these days. It’s all about survival (money) but there are better ways to boost circulation than cashing in on the “damned”. In Europe, the newspapers give out freebies like cds, dvds, books, comics, film tickets, cameras, toys, etc., for subscriptions or for collecting points, samples of all kinds of rubbish and discount coupons to ice creams, hamburgers, pizzas, etc. THERE, chief editors in Malaysia, talk to your advertising dept and start cashing in on one common human weakness – greed. It’s a win – win situation, right?

  57. Justice Pao says:

    From observation, it’s always difficult to let justice prevail esp in a justice system where the ‘powerful’ can dictate the outcome.

  58. monsterball says:

    Justice Pao…..You are famous for executing justice in China. If you write like this about Malaysia…WE ARE ALL GONNA…unless CHANGE GOVT.!!…hahahahahaha

  59. monsterball says:

    Alright Roxanne……have it your your way…not that I don’t understand..but ….I still don’t agree…as all are summoned and accused of murder and are jail birds….but other witnesses like those not in jail….yes those witnesses can cover their faces up…if they wish to. Witnesses are doing a service for their case and country. They need to be highly respected and treated well.
    Tell me…do you think those three accused are having different meals or same as other convicts?Having air cond room…with TV and Astro….TELL ME THAT.

  60. monsterball says:

    Bails also refused! Roxanne. So are they not convicts and need their lawyers to prove they are not?
    Now…..I also cannot be more clearer than this….if you refuse to listen to logics.

  61. wits0 says:

    Roxanne: “I don’t think any of them have ethical qualms these days.”

    Agree heartily. After years of the good life dictatorially pushing pen and enjoying perks, the cynicism is assured. The 180 degree turnabout transformation of The Star into a black dwarf after it was suspended and reinstated seems to openly set this norm. So much so that some editors are regarded as so indispensablle that they are resurrected from retirement to write editorials in favor of the System. They’re useful masters at half truths and dissimulation for the System’s propaganda. It’s more than about simple survival but the good life. Remember the one who stridently attacked Susan’s blog?

  62. monsterball says:

    Roxanne….After more than two weeks reading about the case…what do you think is all about?
    It’s about justice ….right?
    So why are the three handcuffed…if they are not convicts? Is that a justifiable act? why don’t the three accused complaint? Infect…it was the other two accused complaining Baginda was given special previledges….and immediately corrected. Did you not notice it?
    And if they are convicts and need their lawyers to prove otherwise….how on earth can convicts cover their faces?
    Notice Baginda never cover his face nor those witness…except one chinese PI ….giving his reasons why. He has right to do so…not the three accused.
    I know you said you are tired….so am I.

  63. monsterball says:

    The irony is …if they are proven innocent….why worry..no one will kill innocent people.And if they are guilty….also why worry….those wanting to take revenge for personal reasons also cannot do it…the law will do that for them..But this is only food for thoughts.
    They do not have the rights to cover their faces…doing that…means government practice double standard rules and regulation….be it the judge…govt. lawyers…police or government itself.

  64. wits0 says:

    Monty, they are not technically “convicts”, but accuse because they’ve not been convicted – something that the ongoing process is supposed to do.

    If you ask me, the act of covering their faces is also especially exaggerated in this corner of the planet. An innocent person who is also confident in the System’s ability to vindicate him should(logicall) have little to be shy of except for the possible fall-out angle described by Roxanne.

  65. monsterball says:

    But can anyone tell me do the have special meals….TV ..AIRCOND ROOM….ETC?
    I am glad you use the word ‘technically”…which I agree….simply means not guilty under the eyes of the law….but police have arrested them and treated them like convicts…challenging the law to prove otherwise.
    Still back to my simple question about special treatment…do they get them?

  66. monsterball says:

    witsO …This is not about shy or not shy or can a handcuffed person have the right to cover the face.
    It is about….yes or no….and I say NO….when one is handcuffed and treated lie a convict.
    From house to jail…I agree one has that right…not jailed yet….but the moment he/she is jailed…no such freedom.

  67. monsterball says:

    I can safely say also…..they are all photographed…thumb printed..with a convict number. Am I right witsO/Roxanne?

  68. wits0 says:

    “TV ..AIRCOND ROOM….ETC?”

    Remember Abdullah Ang? He was allowed to go home as well! You see the “special treatment” mentality pervades into every crevices of Bolehland everyday life. Specific institutions become quietly endowed with the arbitrary right of according inequality at their own dicretion because of the underwritten core ideology of special priviledge. 50 years of achivement indeed to be proud about indeed!

  69. monsterball says:

    Yes..Under TDM….so clear there were no laws…and Abdullah Ang is one of his marchai….everyone knows that…and TDM was a dictator.
    BUT NOW IS DIFFERENT……OR IS IT?

  70. monsterball says:

    Looks like no changes from UMNO…whoever becomes PM.

  71. The Observer says:

    Only guilt have to be proven my dear OA not innocence. If we take your approach, then we will have the entire nation in prison, especially in this age of counter terrorism and preemptive measures.

    As for the court system.It will never be independent if the there are no public scrutiny from the public. But the question that we need to ask is to PKR.What do they think of the court system? Fair and independent? is it after Anwar? The courts are fairer?

    As i said..Public scrutiny.PKR should focus on the justice system and work on the reform process and fight for justice in public interest cases.

    Are they doing it? NOT AT ANY TIME as i remember.After Anwar’s release, it all over for justice and it all about politiking now.

    They should focus on justice and not politiking.In in the Altantuya’s case, the only motivation they have is to topple one leader in UMNO.Thats all.They dont give a damn about the justice of the case and the corrupt elements (as they once propagated).

    They should focus on the case and justice not the dinner for 3 coupon.

    Politicians become dirty when the single motivation of their politics becomes self serving and purely in the interest of power.

    Is this applies to the opposition as well?

    Politicians are not all dirty.be it in ruling party or opposition.

  72. wits0 says:

    Monty, personally I agree that covering the face when arriving at the court has more inaneness built-in than logical substance.

  73. alattangtu says:

    maybe tian chua has the real picture?

  74. notsosmart says:

    Yes Roxy. Appreciate your thought. But..wasn’t it the job of the police officer-in-charge to investigate and coming out with sufficient and real solid evidences to prosecute the accused. So….that person is already, to certain extent, considered guilty. And now, it’s his right to defence and prove his innocent.
    Well…?? collect ah?
    ….So if the person identity is not revealed. How could other potential witness ( someone who saw him/her was or wasn’t at the crime scene )bringing new evidence to the case? Hmm?? Well…unless they are all orchestrated.

  75. evilbunny says:

    TIAN CHUA MY HERO LAR… GOOD JOB… DIU KAU GAMEN MORE… I EPPY😄

  76. oA says:

    .

    The facts here might not be facts in the right sense and unfortunately our world is not exactly an utopia.

    Given all the constraints and barriers the only possibility is to make use of every opportunity available at hands rather than accepting the rots and not doing anything about it.

    There are many ways to reach a destination they said so does it matter what your intents are as long as justice is the destination.

    This is not even about toppling any leaders – it is just a simple case of seeing justice done and prevail – no matter who you are.

    .

  77. The Observer says:

    Dear Oa

    Congratulation! for taking us back to the stone age. If we were to follow your rationality (that you think is a rational idea) then we all have to resort to stone age and barbaric and un civilised ways to solve and put forward an idea or agenda.

    Come on! this is not the wild wild west.As long justice is done..As what they said upon screwing up iraq and killing saddam.

    What is put forward is not an utopian state but the current state of affairs and i just pointed out on what is missing and this is not alien concept but existed in this world long time ago and still do in many part of the world. A world that tailor their actions and agenda base on principles.

    Dont give these excuse of constraints and barriers.Dont blame on it just because you guys have not tried harder and incapable.

    Many societies have came out and fought injustice and tyranny even in the most evil of the regime where people were killed and gone missing forever.

    Is this what is happening in Malaysia? and you want to blame the constraints and barriers.

    Wake up and walk into the civilised world.

  78. […] madness over the fake thingy have traveled all the way from Parliament to SUHAKAM (National Human Rights Commission), local (TV included) to International media like International […]

  79. oA says:

    .

    The Observer

    Don’t jump gun and make your own conclusion for something you have difficult time understanding. I believe you are a smart person but sometimes am surprised you have to SPIN to suit ego. I can’t blame you though if you have a “fix mental picture of what is defined as standard procedure” but that’s ok with me cos no two persons think alike, right.

    I cant stop you from making wild and senseless conclusion to my simple posts and have you going around defining such simple posts in such a depressing and pessimistic views which is definitely not my intent.

    Perhaps my ways are just too unconventional for anyone to be acceptable!!!

    And in a country where a court is used to serve and protect politicians and the rich inspite of incriminating actions and evidences than I wonder how you can afford yourself to speak so fairly and sychopantly on their behalf.

    How can you even trying to justify your preaching of what constitute justices and principles when you have the audacity to even overlook the rots, courtesy of the present system, right in front of your very good self though.

    Or are you just too blind to the facts.

    .

  80. oA says:

    .

    Or perhaps your idea of justice and principles is to sit around boot licking, be complacent and doing nothing just so you get to be fed like a good citizen.

    .

  81. The Observer says:

    Dear OA

    Please keep your imaginary presumption to yourself.Obviously you seems to have a problem understanding english.

    The discussion is not about what need to be done but how things need to be done.

    Even if you think that you are the choosen one and you are the one making things going and saving peoples life with all the sacrifices..pause a moment.Even activist needs to observe certain rules of engagement and overall must have a healthy brains.not just go out and bark and attack and bite everyone blindly or upon orders.

    You can bark and bite everyone all the time and still all you get is people laughing at you. You are going no where.

    There are lots of people doing lots of things and being successful in their effort with integrity and credibility painted all over them. Only this will bring the people to you and only with this you will get the trust of the people and only with this you will win the people to your side.Without all this you only get some animals and robots on your side.

    Maybe your our idea of justice and principles is to be a dog.Barking and biting, be blind and stupid so you get to be fed like a good pet.

  82. oA says:

    .

    Observer,

    Am I detecting some kind of frustration here?

    Understand this I like being unconventional. I am not here seeking peoples approval. Nor do I crave for any prestige here. Just some stinging and to the point comments or insults if thats what you prefer!!! Take it or leave it. Ban me from your site if that suits you all best. Laugh at me if you will. I dont care.

    And I dont intent to make this web serfings as my regular, permanent fixture, anyway. So what seems to be the problem here though?

    Ahhh . You jump guns too often watch it else you might land in a cesspool. OR already did.

    Certain things are best done in a certain way.

    ———————–

    For your INFO.: A WELL TRAINED DOGS are dependable sniffing out shits, see and bark when danger befalls

    I am afraid that the dog you allude to is a pariah dog — THAT S NOT WHAT I AM THOUGH. BAD COMPARISON dude. Try harder.

    .

  83. The Observer says:

    Dear Oa

    Its your right to be unconventional or whatever you like.This is a public space and all allegations and commentaries must be made with fairness and base on a real objective picture.

    You are alleging rott and stink and exaggerate everthing to sound like we are in some unknown part of Africa living under a tribal rule. Be fair, and pragmatic in your criticism and actions.

    Dont you exxagerate and make the serious tyrants look good. Malaysia is not Rwanda or Burma or even Iraq. For your unconventional method to be used.

    looking at your unconventional method, it is then justified to even bom and kidnap and terrorise just to attain your narrow objective of justice and fairness.

    Look at the public interest and what they stand for as well.Not just to do anything and anyway just to achieve your bloody agenda and justice.

    Its not about you but the people.

    There are ways to handle this and it must be done in context and by looking into the issues objectively. Not to lump everything and give it a general dosage.

    You cant do this if you want to use the tribal society methods as our society and structure is different.

    Its not fix mentality or failure to understand. Maybe you are not up to the mark to comprehend this hence make silly comments that force me to response.

    This are the standards and rules base on principles of justice and fairness.It doesnt belong to the courts but to everyone.This is how things are in the civilised dimension of public interest activities. You choose to drag everyone back similar to what the government is trying to do.You qualify it as unconventional and the government have a huge list-among other public order,security and un-malaysian.

    Standards are core principles formulated and in this case its for the reason of maintaining credibility and integrity. Its just a standard and not standard procedure.Its 2 separate thing.

    I dont care of whats your intentions are but your words carries a meaning and it must be rebutted.

    anyway-its a very long para of words for someone who dont care.Why bother explaining if you don’t care?

    Dont turn Malaysia into iraq!

  84. oA says:

    .

    You are a very funny but odd man, Observer.

    You have contradicted yourself way too many times I dont even care to bring it up then. As I have said before you jump guns too often without looking yourself in the mirror and you have landed once too many times in the cesspool. When you are the stink itself you will never be able to smell the fragrant around you. Too bad its your lost not mine.

    I have noticed too in our short correspondents here that you have tried too many times to justify your ideas what righteous means but unfortunately you have turned your blind eyes to what universal righteousness means. Not only this, but you have also countless time misrepresented what righteousness means by indulging on NEGATIVISMS such as threats, terrorisms, etc which is beyond what I am. Which also prove a point that you are judging me without knowing who I am but going around attempting to smear my reputes by associating me with such .. tskk..tskk.

    Is that the best you can do when perceived threats comes your way you go around mudslinging and smear campaigning inorder to escape justices? Your action nonetheless represented the modus operandi of the present government and you are blind to the fact because you are the beneficial of the broken system.

    This country will only be another Iraq as long as people like you and your ilk are around you know that so does everyone else. You reap what you so and perhaps it is time for a change whether you like it or not.

    And by the way how can anyone be taking you seriously though coming around masquerading as moral guardian never stop to question yourself what it is that you are doing. Dont make fool of yourself.

    And guess what, if I needed advices I ll go to my buddies though parents and relatives in high places. DEFINITELY NOT YOU.

    Get my drift.. LoL

    .

  85. hawk says:

    Tian Chua has disgraced himself and Keadilan. He should resign and forget abt politics. Who wants another deciever in politics. There are so many already.

    His fake photo is like many other fake UFO pics. Only his UFO* pic is that of an Unidentifed F…….g Object. We will never know for sure when the real one comes about, becos it will just create confusions and controversy.

    For me Tian Chua is a HERO who is now my ZERO.

    His attempt helps Najib rather than putting him down. Sure, we can make fun of politicians with all kinds of satires. But, it shouldnt come out from from a serious politician whereby his credibility is crucial on any issues, past, presennt or future.

  86. The Observer says:

    Dear oA

    Contradiction? read all my previous post and show me the contradiction. You definitely have a problem with definitive arguments and political integrity.You want to talk about justice and politics( you said it on July 10th, 2007
    at 2:08 am..it is just a simple case of seeing justice done and prevail)

    Remember that when it comes to justice, rules and principles to a definitive standard applies.Its examining the means that is need to justify the end.Justice not punishment idiot.

    These are objective rules and not some imaginary idea to the whims of unconventionality and what ever rubbish.It exist not only in the judicial system but also similar standards to the question of society hence giving birth too social justice and democracy.

    This is what PKR first put forward, social justice and justice for all. What you mean by this? up to your own definition or to the standards that exist?

    Now-its just what they do to mean justice and justice have a discriminative standard.What rubbish.See the danger of coupling anything and justify it as justice. The Americans when they invade Afganistan after 911 called it justice.What rubbish. Justice is not your little computer game where you set your own world and rules.

    You want to talk about justice.Its about peoples life,liberty and dignity and even the worst human on earth deserve these rights indiscriminatingly. Not some unconventional method to those you don’t like and the highest of the standard when it comes to the one you love.

    There are standards to everything that involve public interest and i didn’t set it.It exist.I’m not responsible if you don’t understand this and the heighten stupidity.

    You firstly cant seem to comprehend the meaning of credibility and integrity in political sense with all fairness in context of Malaysia.

    And secondly, you seem to expand the conception of justice to fit your own little dark world.

    This is real politics and not a populist idea and there are standards and rules that exist to maintain the true value of justice and fairness.

    These standards exist and many political parties even in Malaysia observe this purely to maintain their own credibility and integrity.

    May the party that gives you the orders don’t believe in it and choose to twist and turn and bend it all they want just to achieve their narrow and personal agenda.

    Everyone have the right to be where they are, even if it is the jungle.

    Until now, you still fail to rebut my arguments and put forward a proper alternative. All you have is this word-Unconventional? cesspool, jump the gun and load more of rubbish.

    No one is talking about right righteousness or salvation here. We are talking about justice and justice as it applies to individual lifes and justice as in the name a political party have prostituted as of lately.This are not merely a word.it has a meaning and it has an objective standard with rules and principles that binds.

    You talk about justice and fairness bit you cant even be fair in your approach to the issues in malaysia compared to rwanda.

    What unconventional? Public understanding varies from an act of terror and insurgency to character assassination as part of unconventional method to achieve your jungle justice.

    Your argument is merely a point put forward as end that will justify the means.Terrorist, kidnappers and thugs, they all also have the argument of justice for public rethoric and they argue that the end is the most important and the means are just means. The end justifies it. This is another unconventional method of justice in a loose sense.You pick your choice,it can be even destroying a person political base on your own rules, standards and base on some thought and not even evidence and conveniently tailor the sentiment of political conspiracy and lack of transparency and the opposition propoganda of evil and bad to meet the end.The basis is the same and this is the seed that brings up terror and chaos all in the name of justice.Rubbish.

    You call this justice, you call this justice that comes from the Justice party?

    All that im saying is what we all applied when Anwar was victimised and thrown into the pits.We stood by the same argument and fought for it.Not because the person is anwar but he is a human being.The same applies here in the case of Najib.

    You say that how i can speak on behalf of these bad bad people.Im not.Its just you are not able to differentiate the discussion that talks about standards.All you think is that if i dont condemn them and choose to talk about fairness in objective sense,then it means im UMNO and BN.

    Rubbish.This is the poison that i choose not to consume.I have to be PAS to talk about islam, i have to me muslim to talk about islam and i have to be PKR to talk about justice.

    My thoughts and ideas dont have to be partisan but impartial. I speak of justice as it is with fairness and not motivated of putting who is who into a particular place or power.If talking about justice and fairness makes me an UMNO person.Then you just give UMNO the credit of virtue. While you cant put forward anything like that to PKR.

    Change is about change is system and change in mindset and values and vision base on principles and not some change of flag or leaders.

    Whay change you are talking about? Anwar to replace Najib or Pak lah. you think this means change?

    As long there is a system that operates base on standards and principles.The society will be at peace and dissent goes to mean virtue not a laughing matter.

    The unconventional ideas and rules as per ones own wishes breeds chaos.This is the fabric of any society.

    You definitely need some advise from your parents. Smear, mudslinging? who you think you are? Anwar? Tian Chua?

    you are just two alphabet my dear.dont make me laugh.

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